Release of Shocking Winter War & Continution War photos

Discussions on the Winter War and Continuation War, the wars between Finland and the USSR.
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janner
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Post by janner » 02 Dec 2006 10:31

Dear Bair,

Have you read Catherine's latest work yourself? It follows on nicely from her acclaimed study “Night of Stone: Death and Memory in Russia” which won the Heinemann Award for literature. I received a copy of her work "Ivan's War" last December and my personal view is that it is well balanced and, contrary to your comments, shows both the good and bad side of the Soviet Armed Forces.

It can be very upsetting for a culture to be analysed by a “foreigner” – even though this one studied at Moscow University, writing “Politics and the Rise of Stalin: the Communist Party in the Capital 1925-32” whilst there, and is, from my academic contacts, well respected by her Russian colleagues. She clearly has immense respect for the veterans with whom she deals and sympathy for the Soviet position - a true friend can criticise as well as praise.

Regards,

Stephen

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Bair
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Post by Bair » 05 Dec 2006 15:51

Dear Stephen,

yes I mean the "Ivan's War". I have read it. As I have already mentioned, the chapter on the Winter War had several serious factual mistakes. I can point them out, as well as mistakes in the other chapters as well, if you would like to.

with best regards,

Bair

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janner
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Post by janner » 05 Dec 2006 17:44

Bair,

That would be very useful but perhaps we should start a new thread?

Regards,

Stephen

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Bair
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Post by Bair » 07 Dec 2006 12:56

Yes, let's do that. I will start a new thread tonight.

with best regards,

Bair

Jarkko Hietala
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Post by Jarkko Hietala » 07 Dec 2006 14:26

Material Related to these Photos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89iYU82XYAo

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Acolyte
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Post by Acolyte » 27 Jul 2007 00:57

Jarkko Hietala wrote:Material Related to these Photos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89iYU82XYAo


Great video! The picture of human skin on display is also to be found on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism#Modern_era

(in all fairness, I find it impossible to judge whether it is actually human skin or not)

kansa2
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Post by kansa2 » 30 Jul 2007 08:23

Sorry, the dear assembly - is a question !
Russian dessanti /"saboteur" (in sector Hanko) in the form of the naval officer, it should be considered as prisoner of war, unless is not present? Signs on distinction it is not visible - but it is known(for example ), that in russian B.Granin's landing group fighters ripped off them, but remained in the standart naval or soldier's uniform.
Best regards !

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Kimmo
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Post by Kimmo » 30 Jul 2007 17:08

kansa2 wrote:Sorry, the dear assembly - is a question !
Russian dessanti /"saboteur" (in sector Hanko) in the form of the naval officer, it should be considered as prisoner of war, unless is not present? Signs on distinction it is not visible - but it is known(for example ), that in russian B.Granin's landing group fighters ripped off them, but remained in the standart naval or soldier's uniform.
Best regards !


Yes, that is what has been bothering me too for a while, but haven't brought this issue up.

The Russian is in naval uniform, just without collar or shoulder tabs.

Kimmo

kansa2
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Post by kansa2 » 31 Jul 2007 09:15

Allow to add!
In the book published in Russia " Russian saboteurs against the Finnish cuckooes " ( autor V.Stepakov. 2004) are described actions of the russian partizans and the Finnish long range patrols. Unlike Finns, supply or evacuation by air for Russian groups did NOT EXIST and PLANNED ! By tradition , the Soviet command did not protect the russian soldiers and put them before necessity to attack the Finnish civilians, selecting food stuffs and to kill peace inhabitants up to last person, not leaving witnesses.
It, really page of tragedy of the Russian - Finnish attitudes !
( We shall notice, that the Finnish patrols, behind a front line, at times too killed the grasped Russian militarians and civilians).
Best regards !

Slava_M
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Post by Slava_M » 31 Jul 2007 12:10

Tuco wrote:http://www.iltalehti.fi/uutiset/200611215391382_uu.shtml#
A great many more photos are listed on this site.



Sorry for the question... But both of the links are not working. Were they completely removed or moved anywhere? I remember one of the links had informative comments with data on the dates and locations...

Janne
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Post by Janne » 01 Aug 2007 07:58

Jukka Lindstedt discusses the subject of uniform (or not) in his book on capital punishment in wartime. According to international military law it was a very crucial issue because it often decided whether a captured person was tried, sentenced and executed as a spy or whether he was treated as a POW.

The scrappy manner in which the captured desants/spies or alleged desants/spies were often dressed (wearing an assortment of civilian and military issue clothes, with some of the latter sometimes being quite "civilian-like") could make drawing the line a subjective matter. According to Lindstedt, the Finnish military courts held rather rigidly to the view that to qualify as an uniform it had to be "easily recognizable" and to feature a "distinctive element" such as insignia or a military-style cap. On the other hand a higher court overturned a few death sentences when the accused argued that it wasn't their fault that their quartermaster hadn't been able to supply them any better and that their ragtag uniform hadn't been used for the purpose of acts of spionage.

Further, when the accused had been observed wearing a civilian or Finnish military dress - a cap sufficed on this count - it didn't save him from being sentenced as a spy, if he had been wearing a uniform of some sort at the time of capture.

(FWIW, it is my subjective impression that the courts were quite prejudiced to come down with the full weight of the military law in all cases where it could be done without openlyh perverting justice and where the desant/spy wasn't prepared to co-operate with the intelligence units.)

G:son
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Post by G:son » 18 Oct 2007 20:51

The disturbing photo below (probably the same photo that is mentioned earlier in this thread), is posted in Wikipedia, without proper information about its origin. The description says:



Finnish soldiers displaying Soviet soldiers' skins near Maaselkä, on the strand of lake Seesjärvi during Continuation War on the 15th of December in 1942. Original caption: "An enemy recon patrol that was cut out of food supplies had butchered a few members of their own patrol group, and had eaten most of them." ("Vihollisen vakoilupartio, jäätyään muonalähetyksiä vaille, oli teurastanut pari saman partion jäsentä ja syönyt niistä suurimman osan.")


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Maas ... balism.jpg

Any comments?

/G:son

Image

DragunovSVD
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Post by DragunovSVD » 19 Oct 2007 05:02

could someone fix the links somehow? i'm too curious to let it pass....

G:son
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Post by G:son » 19 Oct 2007 15:45

DragunovSVD wrote:could someone fix the links somehow? i'm too curious to let it pass....


I think that the links to the newspaper sites can not be fixed, the pages are not available anymore.

Anobody wish to comment the authenticity of the above photo?

/G:son

Anne G,
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Post by Anne G, » 22 Oct 2007 21:52

In Suomen kuvalehti 41/2007 there were pictures about from the Finnish soldiers's private albums under the haedline "The hidden pictures": http://www.suomenkuvalehti.fi/sk-netti/ ... dasta.aspx

In the magazine, the photos was also a picture about one about fallen members of a Soviet patrol, among them a woman with bare breasts. I regognize this picture immediately: it was the same as in the album of my father. He had earlier told me that the picture is from the motti of Porlammi (after Vyborg had be captured in 1941). He had bought the photo from one soldier who had a camera and made money by selling his pictures. He didn't sent the photo to the magazine, but somebody else did (there is no name in any of the photos).

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