5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

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P. Heijkoop
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Post by P. Heijkoop » 13 Jan 2008 22:48

Paul,

good it's saved 8-)
better in storage for future use then letting it
rust away !

Peter

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M19 MADMAL
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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by M19 MADMAL » 22 May 2008 20:50

Hi all,

Some photos of a tool chest for the M19.

(had these photos for years and I think it belongs to a collector in Guernsey :? )

Enjoy :D

Malcolm :wink:
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"I had expected only ruins", "It's as if I had only left the bunker yesterday!"
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.

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M19 MADMAL
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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by M19 MADMAL » 22 May 2008 20:54

Some more of the inside with a very nice contents label 8O 8-)

Enjoy :D

Malcolm :wink:
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"I had expected only ruins", "It's as if I had only left the bunker yesterday!"
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/StrongpointCorbiereJersey/

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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by P. Heijkoop » 22 May 2008 21:54

Ooh,
very nice. I suppose the tool themselve are missing ;-)

Peter

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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by M19 MADMAL » 23 May 2008 18:22

Hi Peter,

Yep you got it. No tools :(

Does anybody know what the significance is of the 'R142A' & the Nr. below it (?) on the muzzle of the M19 photo below??

Am I correct in saying that only 98 M19s were made which makes me wonder why the Nr.142. :?

As this part of the barrel was just a cover/guide for the proper barrel to slide up and down in is it prehaps designed to be 'sacrifical' and could be replaced if it was damaged by shrapnel and the like?

Malcolm :wink:

Photo from Google Earth :)
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"I had expected only ruins", "It's as if I had only left the bunker yesterday!"
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/StrongpointCorbiereJersey/

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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by P. Heijkoop » 24 May 2008 09:53

Hi Malcolm,

I know the weapon had it's unique number stamped everywhere on it's part and I suppose
nr 142 is one example of it..

If this means that the M19 were produced in 100+ numberm, perhaps that's true.

Peter

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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by M19 MADMAL » 24 May 2008 13:04

Hi All,

A couple of pics of the type 633 M19 bunker at Mont Lambert, France from Atlantikwall Super Forum and posted by 'tof';

http://atlantikwall.superforum.fr/nord- ... -t1865.htm

The first shows the ammunition room still with the loading tables and the ammo storage racks :) . A lot of damage caused by the turret being removed can be seen around the door to to turret room with a lot of re-bars visible and a hole has been blown through the upper-left corner allowing tons of infill to pour in :(

The second is looking into the ammo room from the ventilation room and the Schwungscheibe is still in place. From the marks on the wall it looks like the bunker totally floods up to the roof :o

Malcolm :wink:
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"I had expected only ruins", "It's as if I had only left the bunker yesterday!"
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/StrongpointCorbiereJersey/

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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by Jens Andersen » 24 May 2008 13:23

Hello

I think that there were produced more than the 98.

In his last "Typenheft" Rudi Rolf mentions 73 Regelbau-bunkers for M 19 as built alone in the Atlantic Wall. In Esbjerg/Denmark further four were under construction when the war ended.

Some M 19 (how many?) were also used in Submarinebunkers. And it would seem that at least some weapons were kept in the Ostwall (at least two) and the Westwall.

I know of the following numbers:
Hanstholm/Denmark - L 107
Agger/Denmark - 135
Wehrteknischen Studiensammlung - 188A

Where was the pictures on the top of the page, showing the number R 142A taken?

Best regards
Jens

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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by M19 MADMAL » 24 May 2008 15:55

Hi Jens,

The photo is of the M19 on Fanö, Denmark.

Apart from the 73 Type 633's I know of 2 M19 bunkers on U Boat bases which are at St Nazaire and in Norway where only the turret was installed.

32 'B Werk' bunkers were constructed and each of them was (I guess) fitted with a M19 and I understand that 14 were installed on the East Wall.

Don't know how many (if any) Type 135 & 136's were constructed to mount a M19.

There was also at least 2 training M19's
The first was the M19 im Schiessbok which was a M19 mounted on a Sonderanhanger 101 twin axle trailer which would provide a crew to drill on the weapon under the type of training supervision which would have been inpossible within the close confines of a M19 turret.
The Second was a M19 in a training cupola made of concrete or Ubungsturm. Using this device crews could get use to opperating a M19 within the confined turret.

If I have got it right that's a total of at least 123 M19's :o

Malcolm :wink:
"I had expected only ruins", "It's as if I had only left the bunker yesterday!"
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/StrongpointCorbiereJersey/

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Re:

Post by M19 MADMAL » 25 May 2008 22:48

Hi Peter,
P. Heijkoop wrote: Just checked my sources and indeed in the lower part of the Schwungscheibe an electromotor could be placed.
This would switch on when turning the handle from Hand- to Motorantrieb. However, the currency for this motor was not generated by the turn-wheel.
So the supply for the motor in the Schwungscheibe must have been from an external source :)
But where from :?
In the 5 M19 bunkers I have been inside none of them have any trace of a cable supply to the Schwungscheibe from the bunker's own electrical wiring for lighting, air pump motors etc. The Schwungscheibe was completely independent so I guess that most never had a electric motor fitted and had to use only the 'Handantreib' to opperate the mortar.

Or was there another means to get power to the Schwungscheibe electric motor?

Malcolm :wink:
"I had expected only ruins", "It's as if I had only left the bunker yesterday!"
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/StrongpointCorbiereJersey/

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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by P. Heijkoop » 26 May 2008 11:35

Hi Malcolm,

With some M19s I've seen some additional wiring close to the Schwungscheibe. What I remember
is that these looked like they were added later on. Would have to check that at home.

With regard to motorised M19s, we know for sure that the M19s of the Kernwerk Ijmuiden were power
driven. In some of the bunkers in this Kernwerk (e.g. a 631) you can see remains for a small generator in the Nahkampfraum. Perhaps this was also the case with the m19 and that's how it was driven in this specific case...

Peter

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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by Erik E » 26 May 2008 21:35

In his last "Typenheft" Rudi Rolf mentions 73 Regelbau-bunkers for M 19 as built alone in the Atlantic Wall.
The number for Norway also need to be ajusted a little....
No idea how many M-19 actually got operational here, but so far we managed to find 10 R633`s! In addition comes the allready mentioned on the submarinebunker "Bruno". Last but not least a blown up SK for M-19 connected to an undergroundsystem at MKB Mestersand outside Kirkenes.... Those "10 confirmed" is a number which most likely will rise, as there are still "indications" that a few more are still hiding out there somewhere :wink:

Rgds
Erik E

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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by M19 MADMAL » 26 May 2008 21:47

Hi all,

While digging though all my papers on M19s I found the following that might be of interest :)

After the completion of 10 of these emplacements the assembly was re-disigned. Except for 5 which were installed on a so-called shooting support for testing, 22 weapons were available for installation, there were 880 pieces planned. In March 1945 316,700 mortar rounds lay in different stores.

Weapons and secret weapons of the German Army 1933-1945 by Fritz Cock Volume 1.


Source: http://www.iba-informationen.de in 2005 (a site that does now exist again :) Thanks TH :wink: )

Interesting that the M19 was re-disigned. The photos of examples not mounted into bunkers have a electric motor mounted on the weapon under the barrel. But all the 'installed' examples in war time photos or that have survived had the motor moved into the Schwungscheibe (if it was even fitted). And that the soure states that 880 M19's were planned 8O

Malcolm :wink:
Last edited by M19 MADMAL on 27 May 2008 17:50, edited 2 times in total.
"I had expected only ruins", "It's as if I had only left the bunker yesterday!"
Herr Engelbert Hoppe. M19 bunker Commander 1944/45 when he first returned in 2006.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/StrongpointCorbiereJersey/

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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by Erik E » 26 May 2008 21:52

I know the weapon had it's unique number stamped everywhere on it's part and I suppose
nr 142 is one example of it..
Attached examples taken in the very same bunker: All weaponparts are stamped "R153A" or just "153"
The platform + weaponframe itself is marked "125" with paint
The copular Nr. is "143"

PS:
Do we know for sure that the seralnumbers didn`t start at 100? ;-)

Rgds Erik E
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TH
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Re: 5cm Maschinengranatwerfer M19

Post by TH » 26 May 2008 22:17

Source: http://www.iba-infomationen.de in 2005 (a site that does not exist anymore? :? )
If you add a little 'r' it exists! ;)iba-informationen.de

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