Polish artillery
Re: Polish artillery
Hello,
Thank you all for your kind replies. I'll copy some pictures from my manuals later.
Here is a rough sketch of the alleged "Polish manufacturer's marking" on those shells which said to be made in Poland. Is this anything Polish? Which maufacturer does it represent?
Thank you all for your kind replies. I'll copy some pictures from my manuals later.
Here is a rough sketch of the alleged "Polish manufacturer's marking" on those shells which said to be made in Poland. Is this anything Polish? Which maufacturer does it represent?
- Attachments
-
- marking.JPG (20.51 KiB) Viewed 4197 times
Re: Polish artillery
The 120mm Wz.1878/09/31 and 120mm Wz.1878/10/31 were built on two chassis;
152mm M1909 Schneider Howitzer
152mm M1910 Putilov/Schneider Howitzer
Now look at the data below (I got the data from a Bulgarian WW1 site):
152mm M1909 Schneider Howitzer = Weight 2.275 kg
152mm M1910 Putilov/Schneider Howitzer = Weight 2.162 kg
There is a difference in weight, so would these guns have different stats?
I have tried to find data on these guns, but they list them both as the same weapon, but surly there would be a difference because of the different weights.
Yan.
152mm M1909 Schneider Howitzer
152mm M1910 Putilov/Schneider Howitzer
Now look at the data below (I got the data from a Bulgarian WW1 site):
152mm M1909 Schneider Howitzer = Weight 2.275 kg
152mm M1910 Putilov/Schneider Howitzer = Weight 2.162 kg
There is a difference in weight, so would these guns have different stats?
I have tried to find data on these guns, but they list them both as the same weapon, but surly there would be a difference because of the different weights.
Yan.
Re: Polish artillery
Dear Yan
Re 105s - I'll check the stats. As far as I am aware only one 105 was 'motorised' experimentally with a dolly with pneumatic wheels and incidentally not pulled by a C4P but by a Vickers-Armstrong LAT. There may have been the odd experiments that have passed me by (or I've forgotten - happens at my age ) and if so I'd be very interested to see the evidence - with reflection it would be more than likely that such experimentation was taking place as an extensive programme of motorisation of the 'heavy' artillery was envisaged as part of the 1936 modernisation plan. That being said doubt that anyone considered the C4P as traction for these as by 1938/9 their inadequacies had been realised and they were to be replaced with Unic tractors purchased from France. One thing we can be fairly certain of is that apart from the 220mm mortars, only the following weapons went to war on rubber wheels: 12 75mm wz 97s, 4 100mm howitzers and 12 120mm guns.
Re 120s: Konstankiewicz makes the point that the main difference between the 1878/09/31 and 1878/10/31 was the weight of the undercarriage. The data is almost certainly for the '09' as I don't think there is any extant information on the '10'. Even the contemporaneous instructions (of 1938) give stats for the 09 with the rider that the 10 differs from it in the layout of the recoil mechanism and the construction of the barrel, undercarriage (its lighter) and other odds and sods including the limber.
YC Chen - any objections to me putting your pic on another website and posting it to a few of my friends?
Best wishes
Krzysztof
Re 105s - I'll check the stats. As far as I am aware only one 105 was 'motorised' experimentally with a dolly with pneumatic wheels and incidentally not pulled by a C4P but by a Vickers-Armstrong LAT. There may have been the odd experiments that have passed me by (or I've forgotten - happens at my age ) and if so I'd be very interested to see the evidence - with reflection it would be more than likely that such experimentation was taking place as an extensive programme of motorisation of the 'heavy' artillery was envisaged as part of the 1936 modernisation plan. That being said doubt that anyone considered the C4P as traction for these as by 1938/9 their inadequacies had been realised and they were to be replaced with Unic tractors purchased from France. One thing we can be fairly certain of is that apart from the 220mm mortars, only the following weapons went to war on rubber wheels: 12 75mm wz 97s, 4 100mm howitzers and 12 120mm guns.
Re 120s: Konstankiewicz makes the point that the main difference between the 1878/09/31 and 1878/10/31 was the weight of the undercarriage. The data is almost certainly for the '09' as I don't think there is any extant information on the '10'. Even the contemporaneous instructions (of 1938) give stats for the 09 with the rider that the 10 differs from it in the layout of the recoil mechanism and the construction of the barrel, undercarriage (its lighter) and other odds and sods including the limber.
YC Chen - any objections to me putting your pic on another website and posting it to a few of my friends?
Best wishes
Krzysztof
Re: Polish artillery
Many thanks for your time and help Krzysztof.
Yan.
Yan.
Re: Polish artillery
You mean the blurry sketch of the manufacturer's marking? Of course you can share it if you think it will be of any use. Also this weekend I'll copy one or two pictures of shells claimed to be Polish from my old manuals. Maybe I'll put watermarks on it but feel free to share any pictures I posted on this forum.gebhk wrote:
YC Chen - any objections to me putting your pic on another website and posting it to a few of my friends?
Best wishes
Krzysztof
Re: Polish artillery
The "blurry sketch of the manufacturer's marking" looks like ST for Starachowice.
Regards
MJU
Regards
MJU
Re: Polish artillery
Yan - some differences found in contemporaneous 'user manuals'
105 gun wz 13
Barrel length: 2987
Shell weights:
Schrapnel wz 16: 16985
Grenade wz 14: 15500
Tracer wz 16: 16815
Max range: 12,000 (with '0' charge and Schrapnel wz 16)
Muzzle velocity depends on charge
ROF: 8 rpm
105 gun wz 29
Max range: 15500
ROF = 6 rpm
Shell weight:
Grenade wz 14: 15500
Grenade wz 31: 15440
Hope that helps
Krzysztof
105 gun wz 13
Barrel length: 2987
Shell weights:
Schrapnel wz 16: 16985
Grenade wz 14: 15500
Tracer wz 16: 16815
Max range: 12,000 (with '0' charge and Schrapnel wz 16)
Muzzle velocity depends on charge
ROF: 8 rpm
105 gun wz 29
Max range: 15500
ROF = 6 rpm
Shell weight:
Grenade wz 14: 15500
Grenade wz 31: 15440
Hope that helps
Krzysztof
Re: Polish artillery
Thank you Krzysztof I will amend my 105 data; are these the two Russian Guns used to provide the carriage for the 120mm Wz.1878/09/31 & Wz.1878/10/31.
http://www.bulgarianartillery.it/Bulgar ... 909_Hb.htm
http://www.bulgarianartillery.it/Bulgar ... 910_Hb.htm
If so, I might be able to discover the weight difference of both Guns, if I knew the barrel weight of the 120mm mle 1897 I will be able to start, so I will have a search around.
Going back to motorisation; the Polish Army had around 350 x Wz.36 AA Guns (Bofors m/32), I have read that these were all towed by C2P Tractors. These light AA Guns were employed in Infantry Divisions.
These heavier AA Guns were not used in Infantry Divisions, but they may have been issued at Army Level.
75mm Wz.14 Self-Propelled Anti-Aircraft Gun: about twelve in service
75mm Wz.1922/24 Anti-Aircraft Gun: around 94 in service
75mm Wz.36/37 Anti-Aircraft Gun: only 52 in service
The info available for both the 75mm Wz.14 and 75mm Wz.1922/24 is scarce so I may have to look at the French data for any gaps in my figures;
French/Schneider mle 13/34 mounted on a Fiat 6211 Truck = 75mm Wz.14
French/Schneider mle ?, towed by a Brak Truck = 75mm Wz.1922/24
I have read that the 75mm Wz.1922/24 was only used to defend Military bases and coastal defences.
The 75mm Wz.14 was placed on a truck so it was pretty mobile.
Yan.
http://www.bulgarianartillery.it/Bulgar ... 909_Hb.htm
http://www.bulgarianartillery.it/Bulgar ... 910_Hb.htm
If so, I might be able to discover the weight difference of both Guns, if I knew the barrel weight of the 120mm mle 1897 I will be able to start, so I will have a search around.
Going back to motorisation; the Polish Army had around 350 x Wz.36 AA Guns (Bofors m/32), I have read that these were all towed by C2P Tractors. These light AA Guns were employed in Infantry Divisions.
These heavier AA Guns were not used in Infantry Divisions, but they may have been issued at Army Level.
75mm Wz.14 Self-Propelled Anti-Aircraft Gun: about twelve in service
75mm Wz.1922/24 Anti-Aircraft Gun: around 94 in service
75mm Wz.36/37 Anti-Aircraft Gun: only 52 in service
The info available for both the 75mm Wz.14 and 75mm Wz.1922/24 is scarce so I may have to look at the French data for any gaps in my figures;
French/Schneider mle 13/34 mounted on a Fiat 6211 Truck = 75mm Wz.14
French/Schneider mle ?, towed by a Brak Truck = 75mm Wz.1922/24
I have read that the 75mm Wz.1922/24 was only used to defend Military bases and coastal defences.
The 75mm Wz.14 was placed on a truck so it was pretty mobile.
Yan.
Re: Polish artillery
Yan, there were 2 versions of licence-made 40mm Bofors: 'regular' wz. 36 on 4-wheeled platform and so-called 'half-static' wz. 38 with 2-wheeled tranposrt bogey that was dismantled before the gun was set up for firing. Platoons of wz. 38s were employed as AA defence of important locations like military manufacturing plants, airfields etc. and in most cases were not towed by C2P, but eg. by PF 621 (Polski Fiat 621) lorries. You can see the difference between those 2 versions on photos linked in the beginning of this thread.
See this article for more details on number of wz. 36 and wz. 38 in Poland, although it's in Polish only. The number of Bofors used during 1939 campaign adds up to 350.
Regards
MJU
See this article for more details on number of wz. 36 and wz. 38 in Poland, although it's in Polish only. The number of Bofors used during 1939 campaign adds up to 350.
12 self-propelled pieces of 75 mm wz. 18/24 were in 1 DAPlotSam (1 Dywizjon Armat Przeciwlotniczych Samochodowy): 4 on chasis of Polski Fiat 621L Tur 2,5 ton lorry, 8 on De Dion-Bouton mod. 1913.75mm Wz.14 Self-Propelled Anti-Aircraft Gun: about twelve in service
Regards
MJU
Re: Polish artillery
Thank you for the links and data MJU.
I will pick over that link tonight, but I am sure that I seen some numbers for both guns on another forum;
154 x Wz.36
196 x Wz.38
Total = 350
I suppose the stats for the two guns are the same, except for the weight.
Yan.
I will pick over that link tonight, but I am sure that I seen some numbers for both guns on another forum;
154 x Wz.36
196 x Wz.38
Total = 350
I suppose the stats for the two guns are the same, except for the weight.
Yan.
Re: Polish artillery
Hello all,
Here are some pictures of ammunitions claimed to be made in Poland from my Chinese manual. These are ammunitions for French Mle 1897 field gun, and ammunitions and fuse for Bofors 40mm AA gun.
Hope they are of interest to you.
Here are some pictures of ammunitions claimed to be made in Poland from my Chinese manual. These are ammunitions for French Mle 1897 field gun, and ammunitions and fuse for Bofors 40mm AA gun.
Hope they are of interest to you.
Re: Polish artillery
Here you are: 1280 kg plus 35-kg breech (from original Polish manual)YAN wrote: If so, I might be able to discover the weight difference of both Guns, if I knew the barrel weight of the 120mm mle 1897 I will be able to start, so I will have a search around.
There were only 14 guns wz.22/24 - all used in two Naval AA Artillery Detachments, in a coastal defence, on stationary pedestal mounts (it was a French naval gun).YAN wrote: These heavier AA Guns were not used in Infantry Divisions, but they may have been issued at Army Level.
75mm Wz.14 Self-Propelled Anti-Aircraft Gun: about twelve in service
75mm Wz.1922/24 Anti-Aircraft Gun: around 94 in service
75mm Wz.36/37 Anti-Aircraft Gun: only 52 in service
There were also 84 of obsolete wz.1897/25 guns, on semi-static mounts, with limited arc of fire, plus 2 a bit more modern trailer-mounted wz.17 guns (all French origin, basing upon Mle.1897).
Michal
http://derela.republika.pl
Re: Polish artillery
Thank you Michal, sorry I didn’t get back to you earlier.
P.S. do you know how many Wz. 36 & Wz. 38 40mm AA Guns the Polish Army had available in 1939? I have a total of 350 for both models but no single number for both versions.
Regards Ian.
P.S. do you know how many Wz. 36 & Wz. 38 40mm AA Guns the Polish Army had available in 1939? I have a total of 350 for both models but no single number for both versions.
Regards Ian.
Re: Polish artillery
According to Konstankiewicz's book, 158 wz.36 and 164 wz.38. But his figures are sometimes too low - he doesn't seem to count reserve gun (I don't know, if there were any in this case).YAN wrote: P.S. do you know how many Wz. 36 & Wz. 38 40mm AA Guns the Polish Army had available in 1939?
In the campaign there were at least eight Bofors guns more, found in wagons in Gdynia port, scheduled for export.
Michal
-
- Host - Allied sections
- Posts: 10058
- Joined: 02 Sep 2006, 21:31
- Location: USA
Re: Polish artillery
Yes those were of interest. Do you have any other items like this?YC Chen wrote:Hello all,
Here are some pictures of ammunitions claimed to be made in Poland from my Chinese manual. These are ammunitions for French Mle 1897 field gun, and ammunitions and fuse for Bofors 40mm AA gun.
Hope they are of interest to you.