Books of Viktor Suvorov contains a lot of myths

[Greeder]

USSR did not plan for a war against Germany in 1941.

Did I say it planned?
I asked about RKKA scopes in 1941.
What were they?

And please don't say that they scopes didn't involve Germans at all.

[Kunikov]

The Red Army was rearming itself, it was in the midst of that rearming when the war began. When that rearming would have been over is anyone's guess, as it stood, 29 Mechanized Corps had to be reequipped with T-34's and KV's amongst other tanks, that would have taken years.

[Shoobedoo]

The debate seems to be focused primarily on Suvorov's book "Icebreaker" and the speculation that Stalin intended a pre-emptive attack on Germany. While the premise of a surprise attack on Germany may be without merit, Rezun's (Suvorov's) insights in to the workings of the post WWII Soviet military, especially the GRU and Army (of which he was a member) and Spetsnaz in his other works are certainly worth a look. It is very common (and regrettable) that certain people are dismissive, even hostile towards any of their former countrymen who have "left the fold" so to speak, who write anything that is even remotely "uncomplimentary" of the former Soviet system. This sort of attitude is pervasive, and has always puzzled me, even men like Andrei Sakharov whose motives are generally considered above reproach suffer the same sort of treatment.

[Alex Yeliseenko]

To all admirers of the layman Rezun I advise to find the answer to it a question: why the USSR in the beginning of 1941 developed the plan of evacuation of the military factories from the West on the east of the country?

And for our American friends a question. At you love the spies worked in Russian? People with the American documents, worked on KGB?

[Shoobedoo]

Quote: " To all admirers of the layman Rezun"

I never said I was an "admirer", please don't put words in my mouth. I said Suvorov's books (excluding "Icebreaker", "Day M" and "Last Republic" which I have not read) are "worth a look", and I stand by that statement with no regrets. I've read most of Col. Glantz's works, but that doesn't mean I consider him the final word on every subject. I have also read Mein Kampf and Mao's "little red book", again it does not mean that I agree with everything they write. I have read Guy Sajer's "The Forgotten Soldier" too, and it is either the best book ever written or complete rubbish, depending on which "camp" you are in. That's the problem with some people, their view is far too narrow, they need to broaden their horizons. BTW, I don't mean this as an insult to your language skills, but your writing is rather difficult to follow and comprehend at times, I have no idea what the last sentence in your message is trying to convey. All the best,

SBD

[Kunikov]

Quote: " To all admirers of the layman Rezun"

I never said I was an "admirer", please don't put words in my mouth. I said Suvorov's books (excluding "Icebreaker", "Day M" and "Last Republic" which I have not read) are "worth a look", and I stand by that statement with no regrets. I've read most of Col. Glantz's works, but that doesn't mean I consider him the final word on every subject. I have also read Mein Kampf and Mao's "little red book", again it does not mean that I agree with everything they write. I have read Guy Sajer's "The Forgotten Soldier" too, and it is either the best book ever written or complete rubbish, depending on which "camp" you are in. That's the problem with some people, their view is far too narrow, they need to broaden their horizons. BTW, I don't mean this as an insult to your language skills, but your writing is rather difficult to follow and comprehend at times, I have no idea what the last sentence in your message is trying to convey. All the best,

SBD

His last message asks you if you admire Americans who defected to the KGB? No? Then you shouldn't expect Russians to be anything of the sort of their countrymen who defected to the west. Suvorov's insights, like anyone who writes their "memoirs" or insider accounts, are first and foremost self serving, in regards to the 'work' he used to do. His 'historical' works are a farce to the history of the Soviet Union, and those who blatantly lie about a country's history, be it their own or anothers, do not deserve anything other than contempt.

[Yuri]

Quote: " To all admirers of the layman Rezun"

I never said I was an "admirer", please don't put words in my mouth. I said Suvorov's books (excluding "Icebreaker", "Day M" and "Last Republic" which I have not read) are "worth a look", and I stand by that statement with no regrets. I've read most of Col. Glantz's works, but that doesn't mean I consider him the final word on every subject. I have also read Mein Kampf and Mao's "little red book", again it does not mean that I agree with everything they write. I have read Guy Sajer's "The Forgotten Soldier" too, and it is either the best book ever written or complete rubbish, depending on which "camp" you are in. That's the problem with some people, their view is far too narrow, they need to broaden their horizons. BTW, I don't mean this as an insult to your language skills, but your writing is rather difficult to follow and comprehend at times, I have no idea what the last sentence in your message is trying to convey. All the best,

SBD

His last message asks you if you admire Americans who defected to the KGB? No? Then you shouldn't expect Russians to be anything of the sort of their countrymen who defected to the west. Suvorov's insights, like anyone who writes their "memoirs" or insider accounts, are first and foremost self serving, in regards to the 'work' he used to do. His 'historical' works are a farce to the history of the Soviet Union, and those who blatantly lie about a country's history, be it their own or anothers, do not deserve anything other than contempt.

It is very well told

[Greeder]

To all admirers of the layman Rezun I advise to find the answer to it a question: why the USSR in the beginning of 1941 developed the plan of evacuation of the military factories from the West on the east of the country?

Never heard of it. Could You give me a source and explain why Soviets didn't boast this plan very much? It's perfect for their version - 'look, we were so peacefull and we were so frithened of Germans that we develop special plan of evacuation. We wanted escape not attack.'

And for our American friends a question. At you love the spies worked in Russian? People with the American documents, worked on KGB?

You are funny. USA is normal country, where goverment more or less respects law of common people. USSR was one big jail.
Yesterday I read in Polish media, that 75% of Polish think, that colonel Kuklinski who defect from PRL to USA in 80's is a hero. Polish know that PRL was one big jail leading by a gang of criminals. And we respect people who stood against them.

and those who blatantly lie about a country's history, be it their own or anothers, do not deserve anything other than contempt.

So contempt Soviets historican first. They lied like a hell.

I'm going back to my question:
What was RKKA scopes in 1941?
Did they suspect Germans will attack?
No? Why not?
Yes? What was scopes then? To evacuate industry and destroy Red Army?

[Alex Yeliseenko]

Never heard of it. Could You give me a source and explain why Soviets didn't boast this plan very much? It's perfect for their version - 'look, we were so peacefull and we were so frithened of Germans that we develop special plan of evacuation. We wanted escape not attack.'

Some source:

Politisches Archiv des Auswärtigen Amts Bonn: Büro des Staatssekretär. Rußland.

Sommer E. F Botschafter Graf Schulenburg. Der letzte Vertreter des Deutschen Reiches in Moskau. 2. Aufl. Asendorf, 1989.

Pietrow B. Stalinismus. Sicherheit. Offensive. Das Dritte Reich in der Konzeption der sowjetischen Außenpolitik 1933 bis 1941. Melsungen, 1983.

Вишлёв О.В. Накануне 22 июня 1941 года. — М.: Наука, 2001

Мельтюхов М.И. Упущенный шанс Сталина. М. Вече.2002

Генеральный штаб накануне войны. М.АСТ.2005

You are funny. USA is normal country, where goverment more or less respects law of common people. USSR was one big jail.

It is a pity to me you. You are naive and possess small volume of knowledge. The information for you - concentration camp have invented in the USA. In the USA there was a death penalty when in the USSR it has been cancelled. Read the historical literature, instead of feuilletons Suvorov.

I'm going back to my question:
What was RKKA scopes in 1941?
Did they suspect Germans will attack?
No? Why not?
Yes? What was scopes then? To evacuate industry and destroy Red Army?

These questions for a long time are shined. Including in some excellent Western books.

[Art]

I've aquainted no official Russian historical sources published in last 10 years.

May be it's better to recieve more primary knowledge about current historiography?

What scopes RKKA planned for war with Germany in 1941?

What do you mean by "scopes"?

[Musashi]

What scopes RKKA planned for war with Germany in 1941?

What do you mean by "scopes"?

My English is not very good, but it looks like he meant "possibilities" (possible scenarios).

[Kunikov]

So contempt Soviets historican first. They lied like a hell.

I'm going back to my question:
What was RKKA scopes in 1941?
Did they suspect Germans will attack?
No? Why not?
Yes? What was scopes then? To evacuate industry and destroy Red Army?

First off a blatant lie is not what Soviet historians did, at least not the majority of them. Secondly, you can repeat your question as much as you like. If you want depth and knowledge about what was going on in 1941 then begin to read the literature that is coming out about the time period.

[Alex Yeliseenko]

What scopes RKKA planned for war with Germany in 1941?

What do you mean by "scopes"?

My English is not very good, but it looks like he meant "possibilities" (possible scenarios).

Hi, Musashi.

The Soviet military planning for 1941 is shown in Meltyukhov book . " Stalin's Missed chance ". Unfortunately it is not published on English or Polish.

regards.

[Greeder]

Some source:
...

Thanks. But I don't hope they would be accesible for me. Well, I'll try to get them.

It is a pity to me you. You are naive and possess small volume of knowledge. The information for you - concentration camp have invented in the USA. In the USA there was a death penalty when in the USSR it has been cancelled. Read the historical literature, instead of feuilletons Suvorov.

Hey man, I'm Polish. I'm not from Mars. I don't have to read historican or statistical literature to know what USSR was. Or what USA is. I've read lots of books about life in USSR. Most of them was written by USSR citzen.
You must be kidding or must be after hardcore indoctrination. If You want to discuss how enlightened and civilized country was USRR and compare it with USA I advice You to launch new thread.

These questions for a long time are shined. Including in some excellent Western books.

Yeah. I see I have to answer myself. FYI - books are not a life.

Let's summerize:
In June 1941 RKKA concetrated hundreads divisions, millions of soldiers and thousends (millions?) tons of supplies (ammo, boots, replacements, railroads, fuel, etc, etc) by the western border.
Everybody knows what happend then.
Some Soviets explanations:
1. We were going to defend.
Yeah. With air fields 30-50 km. from border. With infantry without such elementary tool like shovel. Without trenchs and minefields.
June 1941 doesn't look like defense. Ask Finns what defense is.

2. We were going to counter-attack.
Yeap. As the name suggest it means enemy has to attack first and counter-attack party has to stop the enemy, slow down his impact and then attack. It means defend. Look at point 1.

3. We were stupid.
True. But it doesn't mean RKKA planned to be stupid. Nobody plans to act stupidly. This version is just passing beyond true.

New one, very fresh:

The Red Army was rearming itself,

Khe, khe. In front of enemy lines. There is whole enormous big country to to this, but they had to to that on Germans eyes. Similar to point 3.

And there is Rezun's explanation which is accurate to situation.

It's enough to know basic facts about history and don't listen to 'experts' but analize situation by yourself.
But I suspect my opponents don't used to thinking by theirselves. I get only 'books, books, books' replies.
Books sometimes lie. Facts and logic not.

[Kunikov]

Your summary is very general and in the end says nothing about what was going on. There were 1 million soldiers close to the border and 2.9 or so throughout the Western Military districts. The border with the new Germany was quite long, not to speak of Romania. Troops were needed to help protect it and with the fact that Germany had defeated France and was now concentrating more and more troops on their Eastern border troops were being called up and moved up from the interior to the Western border as a show of force. The air fields were moved up as was the border, the major problem was not that they were close to the border but the fact that few if any were finished when the war began aside from the fact that planes were lined up tip to tip without any camoflauge and there was little to no restriction on German recon planes which flew all across the western territories of the Soviet Union. As for your suggestion that the troops had no shovels, what is your source? And, what did they need shovels for? Their defensive line was being built when the war began, the old Stalin was being taken apart at the same time. It was German luck that caught them in such a position, with neither defensive line very operable since one was in the midst of being taken apart and the other in the midst of being built. As for my notion that the Red Army was rearming itself, it was doing so throughout the entire Soviet Union, not just near the new border. Interestingly enough you think books 'sometimes lie'...yet you choose to believe everything in ONE book, please, stop wasting our time.