StG 45 (M) data?

Discussions on the small arms used by the Axis forces.
KrazyKraut
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: 02 Feb 2007 10:38
Location: Germany

Post by KrazyKraut » 08 Feb 2007 15:29

Rikard Hufschmied wrote: Data for "Mauser Gerät 06 H" and "StG45 (M)"

I believe you've got the "rate of fire" and "muzzle velocity" mixed up, in any way they are the same according to the data I've got

Rate of fire: 650 rpm
Muzzle velocity: 650 m/s
Weight (empty): 4kg

- As I've never seen the StG 45 fired, few have, my guess is it ejects top right.

- The troop trail StG 45 was to have the bakelite handguard.

- The troop trail StG 45 was supposed to be issued with the 10 round magazine, but as the Haenel 30 round also fits my guess the latter would have been adopted as standard.
Hello again!

Yes I got this data too, from the Swedish page. But note how on the little tableau next to the StG45 on the last pic in your last post it clearly says (small but readable): Kadenz: 450 Schuß/min meaning "Rate of fire: 450 round/minute". That's why I'm confused.

As you've said Buddy Hinton's StG shows considerable difference from the steel guard StG in the last post, I might write him an email later as I'm curious whether his version is a protoype with a troop trail hanguard or a "final version". The steel handguard looks somehow more finished: The slot for the charging handle is much smaller for example. Note also how the fire selector is the other way round.. I also doubt the narrowing bakelite handguard would fit on the "other" receiver.

Thanks for the reply, though. I'll keep on searching.

User avatar
dect
Member
Posts: 226
Joined: 13 Apr 2005 17:19
Location: Poland

Post by dect » 08 Feb 2007 16:57

We'll stay tuned - keep posting.

Regards
Jacek

User avatar
Rikard Hufschmied
Member
Posts: 219
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 00:05
Location: Sweden

Post by Rikard Hufschmied » 08 Feb 2007 20:12

KrazyKraut wrote: Yes I got this data too, from the Swedish page. But note how on the little tableau next to the StG45 on the last pic in your last post it clearly says (small but readable): Kadenz: 450 Schuß/min meaning "Rate of fire: 450 round/minute". That's why I'm confused.

As you've said Buddy Hinton's StG shows considerable difference from the steel guard StG in the last post, I might write him an email later as I'm curious whether his version is a protoype with a troop trail hanguard or a "final version". The steel handguard looks somehow more finished: The slot for the charging handle is much smaller for example. Note also how the fire selector is the other way round.. I also doubt the narrowing bakelite handguard would fit on the "other" receiver.

Thanks for the reply, though. I'll keep on searching.
After diving into other online references, as all my books are in storage, I now believe "650 rpm" is a typo or a error in thought, and I should have seen it. All other sources have a rate of fire for the StG45 at 450 rpm. 650 rpm is however the average rate of fire for the CETME early models which could explain it as a mismatch.

I need to get my books out of storage ...

User avatar
Rikard Hufschmied
Member
Posts: 219
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 00:05
Location: Sweden

Post by Rikard Hufschmied » 08 Feb 2007 23:04

Concerning the StG45 "V21" with bakelite handguard, I'm speculating here as I do not know, a guess would be that V stands for "versuch" as in "trail" which would make it Nr.21 out of 30 of the troop trail weapons.

Concerning the finish. The seemingly cruder finish on the rifle is by no means an indicator of an earlier prototype, quite the opposite actually. The troop trail weapons were pre-production weapons and as such they would be designed and optimized for ease of mass manufacturing. Anything that wasn't absolutely necessary would be either deleted or simplified and production short cuts would be taken if available. One such short cut could be the front sight assembly which looks a lot, if not identical, to the one on a StG44? Could the V-notch sight be the same as well, it would make sense? It looks a lot more durable with its black "baked"(?) on finish which also makes sense in a troop trail weapon.

A lot of questions ...

User avatar
dect
Member
Posts: 226
Joined: 13 Apr 2005 17:19
Location: Poland

Post by dect » 09 Feb 2007 13:42

Rikard Hufschmied wrote:Concerning the StG45 "V21" with bakelite handguard, I'm speculating here as I do not know, a guess would be that V stands for "versuch" as in "trail" which would make it Nr.21 out of 30 of the troop trail weapons.

Concerning the finish. The seemingly cruder finish on the rifle is by no means an indicator of an earlier prototype, quite the opposite actually. The troop trail weapons were pre-production weapons and as such they would be designed and optimized for ease of mass manufacturing. Anything that wasn't absolutely necessary would be either deleted or simplified and production short cuts would be taken if available. One such short cut could be the front sight assembly which looks a lot, if not identical, to the one on a StG44? Could the V-notch sight be the same as well, it would make sense? It looks a lot more durable with its black "baked"(?) on finish which also makes sense in a troop trail weapon.

A lot of questions ...
I agree - V stands for Versuch

FSB - note that the one on Buddy Hinton's picture has a "regular" height and the one in Oberndorf seems to be shortened.
Rear sight seems to be the same in both and also in the lowest visible rifle - Cetme

Jacek

Armeiro
Member
Posts: 611
Joined: 11 Oct 2006 23:47
Location: ...

Re: StG 45 (M) data?

Post by Armeiro » 04 Oct 2011 22:47


sisuno
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 19:47

Re: StG 45 (M) data?

Post by sisuno » 17 Mar 2012 22:10

As already said it eject on the topp, and the v21 is the number on the gun. i have seen number v20 on pictures and it has red bakelite hand gard and black ribbed steel pistol gripp. sadly the pics i have is to large to post. :)

User avatar
kfbr392
Member
Posts: 429
Joined: 24 Jun 2004 16:05
Location: Germany

Re: StG 45 (M) data?

Post by kfbr392 » 25 Nov 2019 09:46

KrazyKraut wrote:
02 Feb 2007 10:49
1. What was the StG 45 (M)s empty weight? I have found data ranging from 4kg to 5.2kg... That maybe because the data of the prototype versions and the final production model got mixed up.
I would like to know this, too. Sources are not clear.
- source 1: "3,71kg unloaded" (not clear if 10 or 30 round mag, from Gander, Chamberlain - "Encyclopedia of German Weapons" p.55)
- source 2: "4,00kg with empty mag" (not clear if 10 or 30 round mag, from Lidschun, Wollert - "Infanteriewaffen gestern" p.177).
We know a full 30 round mag was 0,92kg (0,41kg for the mag and 0,51kg for 30 rounds 8x33).

What was the weight of the Gerät 06H / StG 45/ StG 45(M) without the mag?

User avatar
stg 44
Member
Posts: 3225
Joined: 03 Dec 2002 01:42
Location: illinois

Re: StG 45 (M) data?

Post by stg 44 » 27 Nov 2019 15:20

In case any one was interested in video of the STG 45 (reproduction) firing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl2aOhQus0o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdBrk_r ... e=emb_logo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRbyrsx ... e=emb_logo
https://armourersbench.com/tag/stg-45m/

Forgotten Weapons did a couple detailed videos of the weapon as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrKhJC35QRA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEPwmYcCPFs

Plus it's use in a shooting match (with malfunctions from using slightly different Serbian ammo):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_YH9RT7R2M

User avatar
kfbr392
Member
Posts: 429
Joined: 24 Jun 2004 16:05
Location: Germany

Re: StG 45 (M) data?

Post by kfbr392 » 30 Nov 2019 11:22

Before Forgotten Weapons and YouTube, we only had a few black and white photos of the Gerät 06H. Now this. What a treasure!

User avatar
kfbr392
Member
Posts: 429
Joined: 24 Jun 2004 16:05
Location: Germany

Re: StG 45 (M) data?

Post by kfbr392 » 19 Nov 2020 09:16

kfbr392 wrote:
25 Nov 2019 09:46
KrazyKraut wrote:
02 Feb 2007 10:49
1. What was the StG 45 (M)s empty weight? I have found data ranging from 4kg to 5.2kg... That maybe because the data of the prototype versions and the final production model got mixed up.
I would like to know this, too. Sources are not clear.
- source 1: "3,71kg unloaded" (not clear if 10 or 30 round mag, from Gander, Chamberlain - "Encyclopedia of German Weapons" p.55)
- source 2: "4,00kg with empty mag" (not clear if 10 or 30 round mag, from Lidschun, Wollert - "Infanteriewaffen gestern" p.177).
We know a full 30 round mag was 0,92kg (0,41kg for the mag and 0,51kg for 30 rounds 8x33).

What was the weight of the Gerät 06H / StG 45/ StG 45(M) without the mag?
found an answer from a source that would know: 8.18lbs =3,71kg.

https://museum.nps.gov/ParkObjdet.aspx? ... 26page%3D1

but is it without mag or with empty (10 round?) mag?

User avatar
kfbr392
Member
Posts: 429
Joined: 24 Jun 2004 16:05
Location: Germany

Re: StG 45 (M) data?

Post by kfbr392 » 23 Nov 2020 19:05

i believe 3.71kg is with empty 10 round mag (because „unloaded weapon“ seems to usually mean rifle+empty mag; 10round mag is pictured; no ammo usually found in museum weapons)
i estimate the empty 10 round mag is ca 0.18kg (=45% of weight of empty 30 round mag)

hence, the weapons weight without mag is 3.53kg; and 4.45kg with a full 30 round mag;

-> 0.68kg less than the StG 44

Return to “Small Arms”