JAPANESE ARMOURED CARS

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
YAN
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JAPANESE ARMOURED CARS

Post by YAN » 14 Feb 2007 15:41

Hi, I want to incorperate Japanese armoured cars into my wargame rules, there are so many but which were the most commonly used ?, so far I have seen the Army type 92 4 x 2 (Hokoku or Osaka), Navy type 92 6 x 4 (Kokusan), type 2592 6 x 4 (Sumida) & the Crossley 4 x 2 (Dowa), the stats have on them is very scant and I would be greatful for any help with speeds & armour data please. finally how many run on rails as well as roads. Thanks Yan.

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tom!
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Post by tom! » 14 Feb 2007 18:49

Hi.

Try

click me.

If you have problems with german language, pm me for a translation.

None of the AC listed there was able to run on railway tracks. There were special vehicles for railroad transport, protection and repair. These vehicles were able to move on roads and railway tracks:

- type (25)91 6X4 armoured railroad car (similar to the type 92 6X4 Aikoku)
- type 95 armoured railroad car So-Ki (tracked)
- amoured railroad crane (tracked)
- type 98 mover 6X4
- type 100 mover 6X4

Yours

tom! :wink:

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BIGpanzer
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Post by BIGpanzer » 14 Feb 2007 19:45

Japanese most common armored cars, were used during WWII:

1. Type 2592 "Osaka" (4x2) - 6.4 t, 2x6.5mm MGs 91, 8-11 mm armor, 45 hp engine, 60 km/h [6.5 km/h reverse speed], range 240 km.
2. Type 2592 (6x4) for sea landing parties - 6.8 t, 4x6.5mm MGs 91, 8-11 mm armor, 85 hp engine, 80 km/h.
3. Type 2593 "Sumida" (6x4 armored car/rail car) - 7.7 t, 1x6.5mm MG 91, 8-16 mm armor, 40 hp engine [some were equipped with 100 hp diesels], 40 km/h [60 km/h as rail car].

Regards, BP
Last edited by BIGpanzer on 15 Feb 2007 22:50, edited 1 time in total.

YAN
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Post by YAN » 15 Feb 2007 16:12

Hi Tom Great site you have there, it was a good help to me, I have been looking at what BIGpanzer has sent to me,
Type 2592 "Osaka"
Type 2592 (Naval I think)
Type 2593 "Sumida" (100 made I think)
Are any of these similar to the ones on your site.
Type 1925 Vickers Crossley, Type 1928 Vickers Wolseley, which one was the Dowa,
Marine Hokoku
Marine Hokoku-Go
Marine Type 92
Aikoku
Thanks to you both, Yan.

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tom!
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Post by tom! » 15 Feb 2007 19:05

Hi.

Dowa was Vickers Crossley.

"Type 2593" was in fact Sumida or "Aikoku" (after a private donating organization or group) AC.
"Hokoku" and "Hokoku-Go" are most certain also names of private donors.

This designations were adopted as official designations doesn´t seem to exist. Some vehicles were painted with this "Names" in Kanji letters thus giving a name for the type of vehicle.

Image

Yours

tom! :wink:

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Tim Smith
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Post by Tim Smith » 15 Feb 2007 23:16

More info available from here: http://www.wwiivehicles.com/japan/default.asp

Amazing that the Japanese were satisfied with their ancient armoured car designs, all of which dated from the 1920's.

From the early 1930's onward they seem to have done nothing to develop their armoured cars at all. Due to concentrating on light tanks, probably.

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BIGpanzer
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Post by BIGpanzer » 15 Feb 2007 23:22

Some short additional info:
1. 2592 "Osaka" - had very bad cross-country ability because it based on 4x2 civil truck chassis, and that armored car was obsolete for 1932 [2592] even. Japanese tankmen didn't like it, but some units used "Osaka" till the midWWII.
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/japa ... onosch.jpg
2. 2592 (6x4) of army units - one of the most popular armored car of Japanese army [5.85 t, 8 mm armor, 3x6.5mm MG type 91, 6-cyl engine of 75 hp, 60 km/h]. Widely used in Manchuria. Developed especially for street combats in occupied villages and towns.
3. 2592 (6x4) of marines - developed for support of marines after capture a beachhead. Japanese marines also used obsolete half-armored 4x2 trucks.
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/japan/model-92.jpg
4. 2593 "Sumida" - Tom posted the photo of early modification [type 2590 "Sumida"]. Rail armored car, also called as broad-gauge railroad prime mover. Was widely used in Manchuria and China by army and naval [marines] units. Railroad prime mover type 91 [2592 "Chiyoda"] was improved 2590 and had special device for regulation the distance between wheels for use the railroads with differ rail gauge [in China and USSR]. Type 2593 "Sumida" [also based on "Chiyoda" truck chassis] appeared in 1933, equipped with 4 lifting jacks, powered from engine [change of road/railroad run took 10 min]. Those armored cars [2590, 2592, 2593] were used widely and effective as railroad engines for tow railcars with infantry and cargos in China [usually two armored cars were coupled], also as patrol rail/road armored cars, for repair operations along the Chinese railroads.
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/japa ... onosch.jpg
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/japa ... onosch.jpg

Regards, BP

PS1. British Vickers-Crossley ["Dowa" or more correct - type 87] were widely used in Shanghai in 1931-1932.
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/japa ... hanghi.jpg
PS2. The first Japanese-built armored cars were type 2583 (year 1923) and "Sumida" ARK type 2588 (year 1928), some of them were used even during WWII by training units.
PS3. "Hokoku" was the very wrong designation for 2592 "Chiyoda". The mistake came from the well-known photo of 2592, where that armored car had legend on board "Hokoku-1 Nagaoka-shi go" (The first car, built on donations from Nagaoka city civilians).

YAN
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Post by YAN » 20 Feb 2007 16:12

Thanks Tim & BIG panzer, So for wargaming view point, if I placed the armoured cars below in my rules to cover from 1920 to 1945 I would have pretty much covered the subject ?.

Type 2592 "Osaka" (4 x 2) Armoured Car
Year: 1932
Crew: 3
Weight: 6.4 t,
Armament: 2 x 6.5mm Type 91 M.G.s
Ammunition: ???????????????????????????
Armour,
Upper Hull Front: 11mm @ 0º
Lower Hull Front: 11mm @ 0º
Hull Sides: 11mm @ 0º
Hull Rear: 11mm @ 0º
Hull Top: 6mm @ 85º
Hull Bottom: 6mm
Gun Mantlet: 11mm @ 0º
Turret Front: 11mm @ 15º
Turret Sides: 11mm @ 15º
Turret Rear: 11mm @ 15º
Turret Top: 6mm @ 90º
Engine: 45 HP
Maximum Speed: 60 kph [6.5 kph reverse speed]
Cross country speed: ??????????????????????????????
Range: 240 km
Produced:???????????????????????????????????

Type 2592 (6 x 4) Armoured Car
Year: ?????????????????????????????
Crew: ??????????????????????????????????
Weight: 6.8 t
Armament: 4 x 6.5mm Type 91 M.G.s 91
Ammunition:????????????????????????????????
Armour,
Hull Front: º?????????
Hull Sides: º???????????
Hull Rear: º???????????????
Hull Top: º ??????????????
Hull Bottom: º?????????????
Gun Mantlet: º?????????????????
Turret Front: º????????????????
Turret Sides: º????????????????
Turret Rear: º????????????????
Turret Top: º??????????????????????????
Engine: 85 hp engine
Maximum Road Speed: 80 kph
Cross country speed:???????????????????
Produced:???????????????????????????????????

Type 2593 "Sumida" (6 x 4) Armoured car/rail car
Year: 1933
Crew: 6
Weight: 7.7 t
Armament: 1 x 6.5mm Type 91 M.G.
Ammunition:??????????????????????????????
Armour,
Upper Hull Front: 16mm @ 45º
Lower Hull Front: 16mm @ 10º
Hull Sides: 11mm @ 0º
Hull Rear: 11mm @ 15º
Hull Top: 6mm @ 85º
Hull Bottom: 6mm
Gun Mantlet: 11mm @ 0º
Turret Front: 16mm @ 20º
Turret Sides: 16mm @ 20º
Turret Rear: 16mm @ 20º
Turret Top: 6mm @ 80º
Engine: 40 hp [some were equipped with 100 hp diesels]
Maximum Speed: 40 kph [60 kph as rail car]
Cross country speed:?????????????????????????????????????????
Produced: 100

can any one fill the missing for me and if my list needs to be expanded to cover any more types.

Thanks Yan.

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