Who killed my family?

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Jonathan Harrison
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Re: Who killed my family?

Post by Jonathan Harrison » 11 Apr 2009 22:07

Mass grave exhumations by the Soviets in Malaryta, 1944, from Andrea Simon, "Bashert", p.168n.:
The third area, a kilometer northwest of the settlement of Malorita, contained nine mass graves. The committee opened two and determined that most of the victims were shot; some were buried alive. The number of "peaceful Soviet citizens" killed here was also estimated at 3,000.
Gerlach's death toll for Malaryta is 4,038, but he puts the date of the operation as 22-26 September 1942 (Gerlach: Kalkulierte Morde, pages 898ff.)

parik
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Re: Who killed my family?

Post by parik » 15 Apr 2012 22:46

Hello
Is there anything new? new material, documents, somthing?

justerman
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Re: Who killed my family?

Post by justerman » 05 May 2018 13:58


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wm
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Re:

Post by wm » 06 May 2018 00:40

Carnaro wrote:On need, non-german units also were involved as reinforcement: usually ukrainische Schuma-Einzeldienst, taken from little gendarmerie posts (and - following Gerlach, a polish schuma unit also was involved in destruction of Brest Litowsk ghetto).
The Brest Litowsk ghetto was liquidated in October 1942. The first schuma unit became more or less Polish in spring 1943.

fuksb
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Re: Who killed my family?

Post by fuksb » 28 Jan 2019 10:26

Hello everybody!
My grandpa was from Ratno. He escape on 1947/8 to Argentina. His name was MOJZESZ FUCHS / MOISES CHAIM FUCHS.
Does anybody know him or his family?
Thanks a lot!

DavidFrankenberg
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Re: Who killed my family?

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 28 Jan 2019 16:17

fuksb wrote:
28 Jan 2019 10:26
Hello everybody!
My grandpa was from Ratno. He escape on 1947/8 to Argentina. His name was MOJZESZ FUCHS / MOISES CHAIM FUCHS.
Does anybody know him or his family?
Thanks a lot!
Hello,
How did he survive during the war ?
:welcome:

fuksb
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Re: Who killed my family?

Post by fuksb » 28 Jan 2019 18:16

Hi David!!

I don't really know. I never met him, but he was from Ratno. He has two brother's JANKIEL/YANKIEL and BERKO and one sister MELTZE.
Hi moved to France on 1945 and he issue the Polish passport on Paris.

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wm
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Re: Who killed my family?

Post by wm » 28 Jan 2019 19:38

In Ratno one J. Fuks (Fuchs) manufactured horse carts.
A. Fuks owned a grocery store.
S. Fuks owned a general store.

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Earldor
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Re: Who killed my family?

Post by Earldor » 11 Feb 2019 23:45

Here's some info on killings in Ratno from USHMM Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos 1933-1945, Eds. Megargee and Dean, Vol II, Part B, p. 1456-1457.

"In July and August, a German military administration governed the town, and from September 1941, power was transferred to a German civil administration. Ratno was a Rayon center in Gebiet Kowel, within Generalkommisariat Wolhynien und Podolien. The Gebietskommisar in Kowel until June 1942 was Regierungsrat Arno Kämpf, and the Gendarmerie-Gebietsführer was Leutnant der Gendarmerie Philipp Rapp. In June 1942, Kämpf was arrested for taking bribes from Jews, and Erich Kassner took over...

During the brief power vacuum after the Soviet forces had retreated, but before the German administration had been established, there was some looting of Jewish property by local Ukrainians from the villages, during which one Jew who resisted was killed. On July 6, 1941, local Ukrainian peasants organised a pogrom in Ratno, again looting property and killing several more Jews. However, on July 7, a platoon of German soldiers arrived from Kowel. Local Ukrainians initially mistook the Germans for armed Jews and opened fire. The Germans, returning fire, killed 10 Ukrainians. The German forces then conducted a reprisal Aktion, alleging that the Jews had fired on them. The Jews were made to parade on the square near the monastery, and about 30 Jews were selected and shot. The Germans shot roughly the same number of Soviet prisoners of war (POWs) at the same time 2).

[...]

A variety of dates are given in the sources for the liquidation of the ghetto in Ratno, but it probably took place in July or August 1942, when approximately 1,500 Jews were shot in the village of Prokhod 5).

The shooting was carried out by a squad of the Security Police and the SD, with the assistance of the German Gendarmerie and the Ukrainian police, who searched the attics and cellars for several days, looking for Jews in hiding. A few hundred Jews were able to escape initially, but many of them were betrayed to the Germans by local peasants and also shot. Some managed to join those Jews who had fled to the forest earlier 6).

[...]

When Ratno was liberated on March 22, 1944, 14 survivors initially returned to the town, but most left for other countries shortly afterwards.

On August 11, 1942, the Security Police shot several Jews in the Ratno district, in the villages of Staroscin and Koniszcze 8), and the 9th Company of the 15th Police Regiment shot 74 Jews in the village of Samary on the border with Rayon Dywin on October 13, 1942; one Ukrainian family (six people) was shot together with the Jews, for hiding a Jewish woman 9)."

2). Botoshanski and Yanasovitsh, Yitzkor-bukh Ratne, pp. 519-533, 581. See also T. Denysiuk and I.O. Denysiuk Ratnivshchyna: Istoryko-kraieznavchyi narys (Lutsk 1998), p.66. According to Spector there was another Aktion by the German Security Police in which they shot 280 Jews as Soviet activists; see Spector, The Holocaust of Volhynian Jews, p.73, but he gives no precise date for this, so it may be the same Aktion.

5) Denysiuk and Denysiuk, Ratnivshchyna: Istoryko-kraieznavchyi narys, pp. 68-69, gives the date of July 14, 1942. A memorial was erected at the site of the shooting of the Jews in 1995. According to Botoshanski and Yanasovitsh, Yizkor-bukh Ratne, pp. 581-583, the shooting took place on August 26, 1942: of 1,500 Jews, 1,000 were shot and 500 initially managed to escape.

6) Gil', Krov' ikh I segodnia govorit, pp. 80-81, testimony of Leon Ginzburg, mentions that 30 Jews fled to the forest before the creation of the ghetto, and 50 more escaped just prior to the Aktion.

8) BA-BL, R 58/222, Meldungen aus den besetzten Ostgebieten, no. 19, September 4, 1942.

9) GARF, 7021-148-2, pp. 346-347, Report of the 9th Company, Police Regiment 15, November 1, 1942.

Ronit vidra
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Re: Who killed my family?

Post by Ronit vidra » 11 Jul 2020 14:26

Hello, Moshe Haim Fuks was my grandfather's brother, Berl Fuks (Berko) who escaped from Ratne with his younger brothers to Argentina. I think we are family, please contact me, me and my family are living in Israel, and many of our family are still living in Argentina.
All of his older sisters and brothers were murdered in Ratne, Ukraine.

ilikewater
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Re: Who killed my family?

Post by ilikewater » 04 Oct 2021 19:44

Hello,

please let me express how deeply I feel sorry for those losses you took.

I'd like to not mention my name in public by now. I am a ancestor of one of the murderers mentioned above. I don't know if my grandfather personally killed your family or ordered to, but I know he was in charge for a command where your family died, parik.

If anyone of you'd like to contact me, especially you, parik, please just dm me. I will not defend my grandfather in the slightest and I am not seeking for absolution or any form of appreciation.

I hope you are all doing well
kind regards

T from Germany

Volyn
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Re: Who killed my family?

Post by Volyn » 08 Oct 2021 22:47

Earldor wrote:
11 Feb 2019 23:45
Here's some info on killings in Ratno from USHMM Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos 1933-1945, Eds. Megargee and Dean, Vol II, Part B, p. 1456-1457.

"In July and August, a German military administration governed the town, and from September 1941, power was transferred to a German civil administration. Ratno was a Rayon center in Gebiet Kowel, within Generalkommisariat Wolhynien und Podolien. The Gebietskommisar in Kowel until June 1942 was Regierungsrat Arno Kämpf, and the Gendarmerie-Gebietsführer was Leutnant der Gendarmerie Philipp Rapp. In June 1942, Kämpf was arrested for taking bribes from Jews, and Erich Kassner took over...

[...]

A variety of dates are given in the sources for the liquidation of the ghetto in Ratno, but it probably took place in July or August 1942, when approximately 1,500 Jews were shot in the village of Prokhod 5).

The shooting was carried out by a squad of the Security Police and the SD, with the assistance of the German Gendarmerie and the Ukrainian police, who searched the attics and cellars for several days, looking for Jews in hiding. A few hundred Jews were able to escape initially, but many of them were betrayed to the Germans by local peasants and also shot. Some managed to join those Jews who had fled to the forest earlier 6).

[...]

On August 11, 1942, the Security Police shot several Jews in the Ratno district, in the villages of Staroscin and Koniszcze 8), and the 9th Company of the 15th Police Regiment shot 74 Jews in the village of Samary on the border with Rayon Dywin on October 13, 1942; one Ukrainian family (six people) was shot together with the Jews, for hiding a Jewish woman 9)."

2). Botoshanski and Yanasovitsh, Yitzkor-bukh Ratne, pp. 519-533, 581. See also T. Denysiuk and I.O. Denysiuk Ratnivshchyna: Istoryko-kraieznavchyi narys (Lutsk 1998), p.66. According to Spector there was another Aktion by the German Security Police in which they shot 280 Jews as Soviet activists; see Spector, The Holocaust of Volhynian Jews, p.73, but he gives no precise date for this, so it may be the same Aktion.

5) Denysiuk and Denysiuk, Ratnivshchyna: Istoryko-kraieznavchyi narys, pp. 68-69, gives the date of July 14, 1942. A memorial was erected at the site of the shooting of the Jews in 1995. According to Botoshanski and Yanasovitsh, Yizkor-bukh Ratne, pp. 581-583, the shooting took place on August 26, 1942: of 1,500 Jews, 1,000 were shot and 500 initially managed to escape.
This was taking place at the same time the Sarny and Rokitno Massacres were. It was a coordinated effort using several units throughout the region, it reveals how organized the Germans were as a result of the Final Solution being implemented in that area. Organization Todt and the Ukrainian Police/Militia were heavily involved in these mass killings.

"On August 26, 1942, the entire Jewish population of nearby Rokitno was ordered into the market square, where people were systematically shot or herded into waiting rail cars, destined for Sarny". - This town is 225km away from Ratno and Organization Todt and the Ukrainian Militias were responsible for the Rokitno killings.

"The Sarny Massacre II took place over two days, on August 27–28, 1942. It is estimated that between 14,000 and 18,000 people, mostly Jews from Sarny and surrounding towns, including an estimated 100 Roma, were systematically executed in the ravines on the outskirts of the town, where pits had been prepared. The executions were carried out by German troops and the Ukrainian Auxiliary Police, assisted by some 200 members of Organization Todt." - This town is 185km away from Ratno.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarny_massacre

My research shows that Josef Huala is probably the one who ordered the liquidation of the Jews in this region, he was the Gebietskommissar in Sarny (Reichskommissariat Ukraine). Can anyone confirm if he would have been the person to issue those orders?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichskom ... at_Ukraine
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gebietskommissar

If so, then who is the counterpart for Josef Huala in charge of the Ratno area, would that be the Gebietskommissar in Kovel?

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Earldor
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Re: Who killed my family?

Post by Earldor » 24 Oct 2021 11:51

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. Are you looking for a one, single German that would be directly responsible for initiating the killings in these places or a particular site? That's a tough question to answer, unless the site and the story are explicitly cited in a source. I'm not that knowledgeable about the organization in the area. So, sorry, only general commentary.

It is my understanding that sometimes the impetus for killing the Jews in a certain area or village came from the local authorities, sometimes from above. But in case the impetus came from down below, there might have been the need to seek approval from higher up. In other words, I don't know how much leeway Gebietskommisars had in liquidating Jews in their own area, I suspect it depended on the timeframe, the area, the units available and people in the chain of command.

Since this was during the so-called "second sweep", there was a general order to reduce the Jewish population in the area to bare minimum, ie. only essential workers were saved. If there were none, no one was saved. These people were in turn eliminated mostly in early 1943. So, I'm guessing that the order to liquidate most Jews in this area came from above, but the practicalities, i.e. coordination and setting of the timeframe was up to the local authorities in cooperation with other offices involved.

Here's a German site about bureaucratic organization and changes in that area: http://www.territorial.de/index.htm. (follow the hyperlinks down to the area Generalbezirk Wolhynien-Podolien (Under Besetzte Ostgebiete => RK Ukraine =>). And unless you haven't already done it, I would also contact Yad Vashem and USHMM and perhaps the sites listed on http://wiki.wolhynien.net/index.php/Standesamt_I_Berlin. They might be able to help you find out more information. Also the memorial books might be of use.

Also, if you can get your hands on Martin Dean's "Collaboration in the Holocaust: Crimes of the Local Police in Belorussia and Ukraine, 1941-44" you might gain more information on the matter. It's been a while since I read the book, so I don't remember the particulars.

Volyn
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Re: Who killed my family?

Post by Volyn » 24 Oct 2021 17:16

Earldor wrote:
24 Oct 2021 11:51
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. Are you looking for a one, single German that would be directly responsible for initiating the killings in these places or a particular site? That's a tough question to answer, unless the site and the story are explicitly cited in a source. I'm not that knowledgeable about the organization in the area. So, sorry, only general commentary.
From what I understand it was necessary to coordinate all available armed resources in the region to carry out these killings, because the Wehrmacht had moved on from the area and the Einsatzgruppen were in need of help.

"The German Order Police and local collaborators provided the extra manpower needed to perform all the shootings. As in the Baltic states, the Germans could not have killed so many Jews so quickly without local help. The ratio of Order Police to auxiliaries was 1 to 10 in both Ukraine and Belarus. In rural areas the proportion was 1 to 20. This meant that most Ukrainian and Belarusian Jews were killed by fellow Ukrainians and Belarusians commanded by German officers rather than by Germans." - Haberer, Erich (2001). Intention and Feasibility: Reflections on Collaboration and the Final Solution. pg. 78.
Earldor wrote:
24 Oct 2021 11:51
It is my understanding that sometimes the impetus for killing the Jews in a certain area or village came from the local authorities, sometimes from above. But in case the impetus came from down below, there might have been the need to seek approval from higher up. In other words, I don't know how much leeway Gebietskommisars had in liquidating Jews in their own area, I suspect it depended on the timeframe, the area, the units available and people in the chain of command.
The Gebietskommisars had to issue orders to the local units in their region of command to actively participate as part of the operation. Overlapping bureaucracies were forced to cooperate in the Final Solution as a result of the Wannsee Conference.
Earldor wrote:
24 Oct 2021 11:51
Since this was during the so-called "second sweep", there was a general order to reduce the Jewish population in the area to bare minimum, ie. only essential workers were saved. If there were none, no one was saved. These people were in turn eliminated mostly in early 1943. So, I'm guessing that the order to liquidate most Jews in this area came from above, but the practicalities, i.e. coordination and setting of the timeframe was up to the local authorities in cooperation with other offices involved.
Correct, the originating order would come from Himmler, etc. but as any organization works, further orders are issued down the chain of command to activate various groups. This is how the Gebietskommisars would have issued their own orders to exterminate Jews in their personal fiefdoms; the final person to authorize the killing of people in village X is the responsibility of men like Josef Huala.

Therefore, in answer to the title of this topic "Who killed my family?"

It was the Gebietskommisar of Kovel, he was in charge of the Ratno area, and he would have been the person to issue the orders to implement the killing of parik's family (the author of this thread) and the rest of the Jews under his control.

Earldor wrote:
24 Oct 2021 11:51
Here's a German site about bureaucratic organization and changes in that area: http://www.territorial.de/index.htm. (follow the hyperlinks down to the area Generalbezirk Wolhynien-Podolien (Under Besetzte Ostgebiete => RK Ukraine =>). And unless you haven't already done it, I would also contact Yad Vashem and USHMM and perhaps the sites listed on http://wiki.wolhynien.net/index.php/Standesamt_I_Berlin. They might be able to help you find out more information. Also the memorial books might be of use.

Also, if you can get your hands on Martin Dean's "Collaboration in the Holocaust: Crimes of the Local Police in Belorussia and Ukraine, 1941-44" you might gain more information on the matter. It's been a while since I read the book, so I don't remember the particulars.
These are good resources thank you for providing them.

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Earldor
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Re: Who killed my family?

Post by Earldor » 25 Oct 2021 22:25

A couple of other sources that might be of use here. They seem to confirm my vague theories.

"The Shoah in Ukraine", eds. Ray Brandon and Wendy Lower, p.48-50 (Author Dieter Pohl):
"It remains to be fully explained why RKU officials decided to launch another large-scale wave of mass killings in May 1942. Just one month earlier, BdS Ukraine announced that undesirable phenomena such as black market activity emanating from the ghettos had been "abolished by means of harsh state-police measures." By May, new instructions were clearly in effect. This development ran parallel to events in other parts of Eastern Europe under German civil administration, which could well point to an order from Berlin. Civil officials in General Commissariat White Ruthenia, the western part of occupied Belarus, had been urging a resumption of mass killings since late March 1942. It can be assumed that the RKU administration's position was hardly any different; Rivne regularly requested the murder of Jews not working on behalf of German interests.

Around May 20, a new wave of mass murder was launched in the General Commissariat Volhynia-Podolia and Zhytomyr, and by the late summer, it swelled into the total destruction of almost every Jew in the RKU. The first murders played out mainly in Dubno and Koreas in General Commisariat Zhytomyr. In June, mass shootings followed in Kovel and Lutsk. In line with instructions from Himmler, Jewish workers between 16 and 32 years of age were spared during these operations, thus leaving a small number of Jews alive.

[...]

What was most likely the largest massacre in Soviet Ukraine in 1942 occurred in Lutsk. Between August 19 and 23, some 14,700 Jews were driven to the Polanka Hills and shot. Only 500 Jewish workers remained in the town. The Lutsk massacre marked the start of another acceleration in the campaign of murder. Koch was pushing for the rapid murder of all the Jews in the RKU under the pretext of drastically reducing the number of consumers of food in his territory. Koch's delivery quota of foodstuffs for the Reich had been raised, and he thought he could meet his new target via mass murder. At a conference of Volhynia-Podolia's county commissars between August 28 and 31, the civil administration agreed with the Sipo-SD chief Karl Pütz, to kill all the Jews in the General Commissariat - save for 500 specialists - within five weeks:
"At the county commissars' conference in Lutsk, August 28 to 31, 1942 it was explained in general terms that, in principle, 100-percent solutions were to be carried out. It was announced to the county commissars by the representative of the Reich commissar in attendance - Chairman Dargel - that these 100-percent cleansings are the express wish of the Reich commissar himself... Before such actions are carried out, they are to be discussed in good order with the county commissars, not only with the Gendarmerie [the German rural police], and agreement is to be reached."
[...]

The killings were carried out exclusively by the KdS Rivne and its outposts, the Gendarmerie, and the indigenous police. The SSPFs in Lutsk and Zhytomyr, Waldemar Wappenhans and Otto Helwig respectively, coordinated their various police forces accordingly. They also oversaw the Orpo officers deployed as "SS and police base leaders" (SS-und Polizei-Standortführer) in Brest (General Commissariat Volhynia-Podolia) and in Berdychiv and Vinnytsia (General Commissariat Zhytomyr). The RKU administration in Rivne was not the only decisive force behind this campaign of total annihilation on such short notice; the county commissars also contributed significantly to organizing the individual massacres."
The OT or Todt officials taking part in the killings were most likely attached to the DG IV road building project.

Shmuel Spector's article "The Jews of Volhynia and Their Reaction to Extermination" (in Yad Vashem Studies XV (1983), p. 159-186) could also be a valuable source on the subject matter. https://www.yadvashem.org/untoldstories ... pector.pdf

As is his book "The Holocaust of Volhynian Jews, 1941-1944" https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/bib4801

Peter Longerich gives a grim counting of most of the massacres in the area in his book "The Holocaust", p. 349 onwards.

And there are several sources which basically recount the fact that Koch played a prominent role in initiating these killings, although the original order may have come from Himmler himself.

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