Katyn

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Georg_S
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Katyn

Post by Georg_S » 12 Jul 2007 20:42

Ínteressting page how the Germans (1943) saw things about the massacre at Katyn

http://katynbooks.narod.ru/amtliches/am ... erial.html

Best reg.

Georg

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RFPB
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Post by RFPB » 19 Jul 2007 16:33

And how at Nuremburg, 12 German soldiers of the Wehrmacht were hanged for the warcrimes commited by the Reds.

And how Churchill the supposed leader of the "free" world with his "moral highground" stated it was the talk of a traitor to say the Russians commited the crimes.

I've always been pissed about this and I did a report about it at school.

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Ogorek
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Post by Ogorek » 19 Jul 2007 17:38

Yeah.....

and just think how the Poles felt !

Andreas
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Post by Andreas » 19 Jul 2007 18:16

Anstalt Hofmann wrote:And how at Nuremburg, 12 German soldiers of the Wehrmacht were hanged for the warcrimes commited by the Reds.
I find that a surprising number, considering that this would be half of all those executed. Would you be able to name those soldiers please, and state which crime committed by 'The Reds' they were hanged for?

In any case, as I understand it nobody in Nuremberg was charged for Katyn, which raises the question of why you post this matter, in this thread?

All the best

Andreas

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Post by David Thompson » 19 Jul 2007 19:57

Anstalt Hofmann -- We're not really interested in unsourced opinion posts in the research areas of the forum, nor are we interested in low forms of speech. I've already pointed out the forum and section rules to you in my post at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 38#1082738

Please review the rules carefully and comply with them before you post here again. They're posted for all to see at:

H&WC Section Rules
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=53962

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Helly Angel
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Post by Helly Angel » 20 Jul 2007 02:34

Anstalt Hofmann wrote:And how at Nuremburg, 12 German soldiers of the Wehrmacht were hanged for the warcrimes commited by the Reds.
.
I´m very very interested in this. Please details and sources.

TIA,

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RFPB
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Post by RFPB » 20 Jul 2007 04:53

Sorry for not sourcing, and yes I understand how the Poles feel! I just always found it bogus that the Nuremburg trials were such 'just' trials. Sorry I guess my memory wasn't correct in the number tried.
From December 29, 1945 to January 5, 1946, ten officers of the German Wehrmacht – Karl Hermann Strüffling, Heinrich Remmlinger, Ernst Böhm, Eduard Sonnenfeld, Herbard Janike, Erwin Skotki, Ernst Geherer, Erich Paul Vogel, Franz Wiese, and Arno Dürer – were tried by a Soviet military court in Leningrad. In what is now widely considered a show trial, they were falsely charged for an alleged role in the Katyn massacre. The first seven officers were sentenced to death and executed by public hanging on the same day. The other three were sentenced to hard labor, Vogel and Wiese to 20 year terms each and Dürer to 15 years.
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=2824

There it is, but I do not know the accuracy of the source.

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Helly Angel
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Post by Helly Angel » 20 Jul 2007 05:39

Thank you very much!

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Penn44
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Post by Penn44 » 20 Jul 2007 07:37

Anstalt Hofmann wrote:Sorry for not sourcing, and yes I understand how the Poles feel! I just always found it bogus that the Nuremburg trials were such 'just' trials. Sorry I guess my memory wasn't correct in the number tried.
From December 29, 1945 to January 5, 1946, ten officers of the German Wehrmacht – Karl Hermann Strüffling, Heinrich Remmlinger, Ernst Böhm, Eduard Sonnenfeld, Herbard Janike, Erwin Skotki, Ernst Geherer, Erich Paul Vogel, Franz Wiese, and Arno Dürer – were tried by a Soviet military court in Leningrad. In what is now widely considered a show trial, they were falsely charged for an alleged role in the Katyn massacre. The first seven officers were sentenced to death and executed by public hanging on the same day. The other three were sentenced to hard labor, Vogel and Wiese to 20 year terms each and Dürer to 15 years.
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=2824

There it is, but I do not know the accuracy of the source.
Anstalt Hofmann wrote: ...

I've always been pissed about this and I did a report about it at school.
Anhalt Hoffman:

The above cited trial was not part of the Nuremberg trial program, either the International Military Tribunal (IMT) or the Subsequent Trials. The source states quite clearly that the trial was conducted in Leningrad under Soviet auspices.

I hope you did better with the facts on your school paper than your assumptions within your post. Before you get angry about a situation check your facts first.

Penn44

.
Last edited by Penn44 on 20 Jul 2007 09:27, edited 2 times in total.

Andreas
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Post by Andreas » 20 Jul 2007 08:11

Anstalt Hofmann wrote:Sorry for not sourcing, and yes I understand how the Poles feel! I just always found it bogus that the Nuremburg trials were such 'just' trials. Sorry I guess my memory wasn't correct in the number tried.
To clarify further, it appears your memory was also wrong on these trials being part of the Nuremberg trials, since there was presumably no formal link between the Allied IMT and the purely Soviet Leningrad trials.

I would also like to know how the Churchill quote relates to the Katyn trials, IOW can you please provide a date for it?

All the best

Andreas

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Post by David Thompson » 20 Jul 2007 14:53

And how at Nuremburg, 12 German soldiers of the Wehrmacht were hanged for the warcrimes commited by the Reds.
This myth has been discussed and debunked here many times. See, among other threads:

Germans hanged for Katyn
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=26603
Germans executed for Katyn
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=15730
Katyn, Injustice and the IMT
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=44639
Katyn - "No war crime"
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 032#589032
Katyn -- the IMT spat
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=57145

This is why we ask for sources when posting, and prefer our readers do a forum search -- the rule eliminates avoidable mistakes of fact like this one.

Art
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Post by Art » 20 Jul 2007 15:05

Here is a page offering to order the article "The case of Remmlinger and others in the context of post-war prosecutions of German POWs" (in Russian):
http://www.lawlibrary.ru/article1121206.html
So if somebody is intersted...

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RFPB
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Post by RFPB » 20 Jul 2007 20:02

Man-oh-man it's hard to find reliable sources!

Yes, my memory served me wrong, but I had not written a paper on it for school. I had done a presentation on the horros of WWII and that was one of the slides on the screenshot. Churchill assured the Soviets:

"We shall certainly oppose vigorously any 'investigation' by the International Red Cross or any other body in any territory under German authority. Such investigation would be a fraud and its conclusions reached by terrorism."

source: "Winston S. Churchill. Philosopher and statesman" by Michael Fowler

Andreas
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Post by Andreas » 24 Jul 2007 12:52

See page 409 of the linked file for an overview of what was known ten years after the war.

http://www.ifz-muenchen.de/heftarchiv/1955_4.pdf

All the best

Andreas

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