SS-4 ?

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Robin Lumsden
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SS-4 ?

Post by Robin Lumsden » 28 Jul 2007 18:51

If.........

SS-1 = Himmler
SS-2 = Daluege
SS-3 = Heydrich..............

Does anyone know who had SS-4 on their car ?????

Max Williams
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Post by Max Williams » 01 Aug 2007 09:47

Heydrich (evidence of Pannwitz). See page 154, "Reinhard Heydrich - The Biography" volume 2.
SS3 was Heydrich's car for official engagements and SS4 for his everyday use.
Max.

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Robin Lumsden
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Post by Robin Lumsden » 01 Aug 2007 19:44

Thanks Max.

I'm obliged.

yalta
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Re: SS-4?

Post by yalta » 12 Mar 2012 19:50

Max Williams wrote:Heydrich (evidence of Pannwitz). See page 154, "Reinhard Heydrich - The Biography" volume 2.
SS3 was Heydrich's car for official engagements and SS4 for his everyday use.
Max.
I've been told that the Rheinhard Heydrich had 3 cars when he was Reich Protector in Prague, all 3 had license plate SS-3,-because he was number 3 in the Nazi hierarchy, is that correct !! I do know he had a Mercedes 770 (or 520!) 320B (the assassinationcar) the third !!?
Thanks for any info ..
Per/Cph

Max Williams
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Re: SS-4 ?

Post by Max Williams » 13 Mar 2012 00:32

Number three in the Nazi hierarchy? I don't think so. The SS3 plate was on a Mercedes 770 which was his official car. He also used one of the Mercedes 320s with a polizei plate and one with SS4 plate.
Max.

yalta
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Re: SS-4 ?

Post by yalta » 13 Mar 2012 20:19

Max Williams wrote:Number three in the Nazi hierarchy? I don't think so. The SS3 plate was on a Mercedes 770 which was his official car. He also used one of the Mercedes 320s with a polizei plate and one with SS4 plate.
Max.
Thanks very much Max, for your info, have you any idea whether there exist a photo of Heydrich's Mercedes 320B, 1938 model W142, with SS4 shown!!
thanks again
Per

Max Williams
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Re: SS-4 ?

Post by Max Williams » 13 Mar 2012 20:36

yalta wrote:
Max Williams wrote:Number three in the Nazi hierarchy? I don't think so. The SS3 plate was on a Mercedes 770 which was his official car. He also used one of the Mercedes 320s with a polizei plate and one with SS4 plate.
Max.
Thanks very much Max, for your info, have you any idea whether there exist a photo of Heydrich's Mercedes 320B, 1938 model W142, with SS4 shown!!
thanks again
Per
Sorry, no. Photo opportunities were mainly at high profile events and he used SS3 on these occasions. I do have some photos of his police plated Mercedes 320 and these appear on pp106-107 of my Heydrich biography, volume 2.
Max.

yalta
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Re: SS-4 ?

Post by yalta » 13 Mar 2012 21:55

Max Williams wrote:
yalta wrote:
Max Williams wrote:Number three in the Nazi hierarchy? I don't think so. The SS3 plate was on a Mercedes 770 which was his official car. He also used one of the Mercedes 320s with a polizei plate and one with SS4 plate.
Max.
Thanks very much Max, for your info, have you any idea whether there exist a photo of Heydrich's Mercedes 320B, 1938 model W142, with SS4 shown!!
thanks again
Per
Sorry, no. Photo opportunities were mainly at high profile events and he used SS3 on these occasions. I do have some photos of his police plated Mercedes 320 and these appear on pp106-107 of my Heydrich biography, volume 2.
Max.
I have your book, greate book by the way ..
The pictures you mentioned, with police PO-12, you are sure they are 320! they have no 'V' shaped windscreen ..!
I just visited a Danish owner of a Mercedes 320B, which are very convinced, that he has the one who is Heydrich's Assassination car .. are you, by any chance, interested in some details..!
Per

Max Williams
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Re: SS-4 ?

Post by Max Williams » 13 Mar 2012 23:36

The photo on p107 (bottom) does have a clear 'V' shaped windscreen and it is one of the cars in the convoy on p106 (top) so, yes, I'm sure.
During my research on Heydrich, I visited three different Mercedes 320 owners who were all convinced they owned the assassination car! None lived in Denmark, so yours is the fourth.
Max.

yalta
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Re: SS-4 ?

Post by yalta » 14 Mar 2012 19:24

Max Williams wrote:The photo on p107 (bottom) does have a clear 'V' shaped windscreen and it is one of the cars in the convoy on p106 (top) so, yes, I'm sure.
During my research on Heydrich, I visited three different Mercedes 320 owners who were all convinced they owned the assassination car! None lived in Denmark, so yours is the fourth.
Max.
I think you have misunderstood me, I asked if you were sure that Mercedes with license plate POL-12 was a 320B, POL-12 in the picture has no 'V' shaped wind screen, versus the Mercedes as Frau Heydrich is in bottom of page 107
a film clip showing a curator from Prague Technical Museum, which comment on the Danish 'Heydrich Mercedes' something unfortunately in Danish, but the conversation with the curator is in English, judge for yourself whether there is basis to believe it might be' the one '

http://www.tv2nord.dk/modules/tv2region ... q=heydrich
take care
Per

Max Williams
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Re: SS-4 ?

Post by Max Williams » 14 Mar 2012 20:58

Yes, I did misunderstand you.
I got fed up with the film clips freezing every few seconds, but what I did see doesn't amount to convincing evidence.
Max.

yalta
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Re: SS-4 ?

Post by yalta » 16 Mar 2012 10:12

Max Williams wrote:The photo on p107 (bottom) does have a clear 'V' shaped windscreen and it is one of the cars in the convoy on p106 (top) so, yes, I'm sure.
During my research on Heydrich, I visited three different Mercedes 320 owners who were all convinced they owned the assassination car! None lived in Denmark, so yours is the fourth.
Max.
I’m pretty sure, that the 3 mercedes, as your mention,- do not have so many ( 15- 18) points of comparison as the ‘Danish’ Heydrich car..

here is a brief notice of the 'Danish' Car;
-It was bought to Denmark in 1945 by 3 SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt.24 "Danmark",
(Nordland) soldiers on leave. In Denmark it was used by one of the Danish
terrorist groups employed by the Germans. After the war it was used by the
Danish resistance for a few weeks and was eventually sold on a war surplus
auction. From 1960 to 1980 it spends its time in an outhouse in Sdr. Bjerre here in
Denmark and it was sold to its present owner in 1980. He restored it back to
working order and is still the proud owner today. The car is a Mercedes Benz 320B
staff car Cabriolet B type 142 IV, of 1938, chassisnumber 434 801.

Furthermore, the owner told us, that on the right hand side of the car, next
to the rear wheel, there has been some damage on the exact spot where the
bomb damage was on Heydrich's car !! He still has a bent axle bearing and a damaged brake-drum (which was found in the sparewheel well)

I do have some pictures I can send to you!! They show lots of details from the ‘Danish’ Heydrich car.

I have a questions for you if you don't mind;

In Panwitz ‘final report’, it was mentioned and showed, that there had been found cartridge cases from 3 different Colt pistols close to the corner where the assassinatinatempt toke place, Any ideas who used the third colt?

have a nice week-end
Per

Max Williams
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Re: SS-4 ?

Post by Max Williams » 16 Mar 2012 12:05

yalta wrote:
I’m pretty sure, that the 3 mercedes, as your mention,- do not have so many ( 15- 18) points of comparison as the ‘Danish’ Heydrich car..

I have a questions for you if you don't mind;

In Panwitz ‘final report’, it was mentioned and showed, that there had been found cartridge cases from 3 different Colt pistols close to the corner where the assassinatinatempt toke place, Any ideas who used the third colt?

have a nice week-end
Per
How can you be sure without knowing details of the others? You are making an assumption. In fact, one of those I visited had a lot more going for it than your one. We eventually came to the conclusion that it was not the actual car, but was possibly used by KH Frank.
There were four parachutists involved in the attack, so three different weapons is not surprising.
Max.

yalta
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Re: SS-4 ?

Post by yalta » 16 Mar 2012 14:41

How can you be sure without knowing details of the others? You are making an assumption. In fact, one of those I visited had a lot more going for it than your one. We eventually came to the conclusion that it was not the actual car, but was possibly used by KH Frank.
There were four parachutists involved in the attack, so three different weapons is not surprising.
Max.[/quote]

I know not, of course any details of the 3 Mercedes, but it would be very strange if all 3 have- had injuries on the right side as the Danish car ..!
Now I think that it is you who make a Assumption, that no one can prove, that there were 4 parachutist in the attack, there is no evidence that Opalka even was there .. according to a historian from Prague Military Museum..
Well, it is surprising with 3 different Colt's, according to Pannwitz, was Kubis not near the place where the cartridge was found, and Opalkas (if han was there!) Colt was found in the crypt - it could apparently not be compared with the said cartridge..! again according to a historian from Prague Military Museum..
Per

Max Williams
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Re: SS-4 ?

Post by Max Williams » 16 Mar 2012 17:25

yalta wrote: I know not, of course any details of the 3 Mercedes, but it would be very strange if all 3 have- had injuries on the right side as the Danish car ..!
Now I think that it is you who make a Assumption, that no one can prove, that there were 4 parachutist in the attack, there is no evidence that Opalka even was there .. according to a historian from Prague Military Museum..
Well, it is surprising with 3 different Colt's, according to Pannwitz, was Kubis not near the place where the cartridge was found, and Opalkas (if han was there!) Colt was found in the crypt - it could apparently not be compared with the said cartridge..! again according to a historian from Prague Military Museum..
Per
I disagree. Two had evidence of repairs just there, but (as in your example) they could have been damaged as a result of road accidents. Not unusual.
As for the number of parachutists, I only used witness statements of people actually there and official reports. I didn't rely upon the word of a museum historian who are renowned for errors. And I only researched it for ten years, visiting the locations for three years and conducting interviews. You obviously know a lot more about it than me, so I'll bow to your superior knowledge and let you carry on. That's me out of this thread.
Max.

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