Japanese using American/Allied Weapons

Discussions on all aspects of the Japanese Empire, from the capture of Taiwan until the end of the Second World War.
User avatar
RFPB
Member
Posts: 303
Joined: 28 Aug 2006 02:50

Japanese using American/Allied Weapons

Post by RFPB » 28 Sep 2007 04:15

Does anyone know of any pictures of Japanese with allied weapons? Any info at all?

Thanks

User avatar
tom!
Member
Posts: 855
Joined: 15 Dec 2003 11:42
Location: Dorsten Germany

Post by tom! » 28 Sep 2007 16:06

Hi.

some afv pics:

Image

Image

Image
captured chinese Vickers amphibious tank during a japanese river-crossing exercise

Yours

tom! :wink:

User avatar
Akira Takizawa
Member
Posts: 3266
Joined: 26 Feb 2006 17:37
Location: Japan

Post by Akira Takizawa » 28 Sep 2007 23:02

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
asiaticus
Member
Posts: 923
Joined: 03 Mar 2004 04:53
Location: Lake Elsinore CA USA

Post by asiaticus » 29 Sep 2007 11:03

Taki

Where did they get those T-26's! Korea in 1938? Or from the Chinese 200th Division in Guangxi 1939-40?

User avatar
Akira Takizawa
Member
Posts: 3266
Joined: 26 Feb 2006 17:37
Location: Japan

Post by Akira Takizawa » 29 Sep 2007 13:31

asiaticus wrote:Where did they get those T-26's! Korea in 1938? Or from the Chinese 200th Division in Guangxi 1939-40?
No. They were from Chinese 200th Division in Burma 1942.

Taki

User avatar
asiaticus
Member
Posts: 923
Joined: 03 Mar 2004 04:53
Location: Lake Elsinore CA USA

Post by asiaticus » 29 Sep 2007 17:24

Hmm, was wondering if any were still operational by 1942.

I know the Chinese V Corps had an armoured regiment but had no idea how it was equipped by 1942. It seems it was the same armoured regiment that had been with the 200th Division in Guangxi but now an independant unit.

Any idea how many of these tanks the Japanese Army picked up and whereabouts did they find them? If the 200th abandoned them when they tried to march back to China, I would have though they would have destroyed them.

JoeB
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: 08 Feb 2007 16:59
Location: USA

Post by JoeB » 29 Sep 2007 18:46

Image
From the book 'Mohitotsu no rikugun heikishi':
another M3, but this one ex-Brit captured in Burma, Brit style stowage.

Image
Photo believed to be Dutch White Scout Cars captured by the Japanese and in service with Japanese-allied Indonesian forces, from this site:
http://www.overvalwagen.com/armoured3.html

Article about operational use of captured P-40's in Burma.
http://www.j-aircraft.com/captured/capt ... ed_p40.htm

Joe

User avatar
RFPB
Member
Posts: 303
Joined: 28 Aug 2006 02:50

Post by RFPB » 30 Sep 2007 01:45

That is interesting to see the Japanese P-40.

Does anyone have photos of Japanese troops with Carbine's, Garand's etc?

JamesL
Member
Posts: 1647
Joined: 28 Oct 2004 00:03
Location: NJ USA

Post by JamesL » 30 Sep 2007 02:04

Did not the Japanese capture a US destroyer or minesweeper and put it to use?

User avatar
Akira Takizawa
Member
Posts: 3266
Joined: 26 Feb 2006 17:37
Location: Japan

Post by Akira Takizawa » 30 Sep 2007 05:35

asiaticus wrote:Any idea how many of these tanks the Japanese Army picked up and whereabouts did they find them?
They were captured on the Burma road in Yunnan Province. I don't know the numbers, but they were not many.

Though I said that they were from 200th Division, the tank unit was not a part of 200th Division. They were from Chinese 5th Corps Tank Regiment correctly.

Taki
Last edited by Akira Takizawa on 30 Sep 2007 05:51, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Sewer King
Member
Posts: 1711
Joined: 18 Feb 2004 04:35
Location: northern Virginia

Post by Sewer King » 30 Sep 2007 05:49

JamesL wrote:Did not the Japanese capture a US destroyer or minesweeper and put it to use?
US destroyer USS Stewart (DD-224) was captured at Soerabaja, Netherlands East Indies, in 1942 after the Americans had thought she was scuttled. The Japanese refitted her as Patrol Boat No.102 and kept her in service through the end of the war.

Dutch destroyer Banckert was also captured at Soerebaja at the same time, but although she was salved she was never commissioned into the IJN. British destroyer HMS Thracian was captured after she ran aground at Hong Kong, and taken into service as a training vessel.
Anstalt Hofmann wrote:Does anyone have photos of Japanese troops with Carbine's, Garand's etc?
There is enough mention of Japanese using M1 rifles picked up from fallen Marines at Iwo Jima, and of course late in the war the Imperial Navy made a small number of Type 5 rifles, copies of the Garand in 7.7mm.

Russell Spurr's account of the IJN's "Last Sortie," that of battleship Yamato and her escorts in A Glorious Way to Die,, mentions the intent to run the great ship aground at Okinawa after shooting up the American invasion force there. In this inexact quote, a young group of her crewmen pestered their petty officers for rifles and bayonets, since the crew was to hurry ashore as naval infantry to join the island's defenders. How could they do that unarmed?

' "Just take a weapon off a dead American," someone said. "There'll be plenty of them lying around. How many divisions have they got? Five or six? A few salvos from our guns, boom! boom! boom! and that'll be the end of them!

' "We've got to get there first.' one cautious soul remarked. The others cheerfully emptied a can of combustibles on top of his head.'

---------------------------------------

I would have thought any wider use of captured American rifles would have been later in the war, in places where Japanese war photographers would have been less likely to be, or to survive. Therefore it would be all the more intriguing to see any such photo.

-- Alan

User avatar
asiaticus
Member
Posts: 923
Joined: 03 Mar 2004 04:53
Location: Lake Elsinore CA USA

Post by asiaticus » 30 Sep 2007 09:31

They were captured on the Burma road in Yunnan Province. I don't know the numbers, but they were not many.

Though I said that they were from 200th Division, the tank unit was not a part of 200th Division. They were from Chinese 5th Corps Tank Regiment correctly.

Taki
Thanks Taki.

Interesting, They probably broke down on the retreat, and did not have the time to destroy them before the Japanese came up on them. One account I read mentioned the Japanese were in hot pursuit and caught up with the retreating Chinese in Yunnan near the Burma Road Salween crossing.

JoeB
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: 08 Feb 2007 16:59
Location: USA

Post by JoeB » 30 Sep 2007 15:12

JamesL wrote:Did not the Japanese capture a US destroyer or minesweeper and put it to use?
Besides USS Stewart, also the Yangtze gunboat USS Luzon (PR-7), which had withdrawn to the Philippines. As IJN Karatsu, she shared part credit with a/c in sinking the US submarine Cisco in 1943. Stewart/PB 102 was also in the vicinity of a US sub sinking in 1944 but apparently not directly involved.

Joe

User avatar
Peter H
Member
Posts: 28628
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 13:18
Location: Australia

Post by Peter H » 02 Oct 2007 12:45

I doubt this is true but this came up in 1943:

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt0 ... lanes.html
There is some evidence that the Japanese may be using captured U.S. planes with U.S. markings for reconnaissance purposes.

On two distinct occasions an unidentified U.S. Navy PBY has been seen hovering around the edge of a U.S. Navy task force for a good part of the day. The Air Officer of a U.S. carrier believes this PBY may have been captured by the Japanese and is being used by them for reconnaissance. On an earlier occasion, a U.S. plane tried to identify the personnel of a PBY and reported that the personnel turned their faces away. Two other pilots reported that a PBY gave them the incorrect signal but showed the proper lights and a third pilot said that a PBY gave him the correct signal but showed the wrong lights. Bombing pilots reported similar incidents where a PBY circled for a long time before giving recognition signals.

User avatar
Sewer King
Member
Posts: 1711
Joined: 18 Feb 2004 04:35
Location: northern Virginia

Post by Sewer King » 04 Oct 2007 04:04

It sounds unlikely, but not implausible. The Germans were said to have done the same with some few captured B-17s to shadow US bomber formations. I think it was said in Edwin Jablonski's book Flying Fortress (New York: Doubleday, 1971) that such lone, trailing B-17s kept just outside of range and were to be fired on if seen, even at risk to genuinely friendly stragglers.

A USN aviator close enough to see the PBY crew's faces would have been close enough to report the plane's markings. Although this report of "rogue" PBYs is more like that of a professional journal than official intelligence, it seems that if the Navy took it seriously the fleet would have been alerted to watch for it, and the matter maybe preserved in records. Combat air patrols might have heard of such a possibility however small.

Flying a captured enemy plane into action has other risks beyond the obvious, and this would seem even more so for a long-range recce plane like a PBY. There is one instance of a captured P-38 flown by the Italians and downing an American warplane, but the rogue was soon grounded due to engine degradation from the use of Italian fuel. Of course many captured planes are often not in the best condition when forced down. Even without battle damage, their combat life without proper spares and care could be relatively limited.

John Prados' exhaustive study of US naval intelligence in the Pacific, Combined Fleet Decoded (New York: Random House, 1995), page 429, mentions that the Japanese Army Air Force flew a captured Martin PBM Mariner.for its technical evaluation.

Theoretically, if the Japanese had such an opportunity to fly a PBY against its former owners, at what level would it have been decided to try doing so?

-- Alan

Return to “Japan at War 1895-1945”