Commanding officer of 14. Panzer, January – March 1942.

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Strovalnyk
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Commanding officer of 14. Panzer, January – March 1942.

#1

Post by Strovalnyk » 07 Jan 2008, 16:04

During the Soviet breakthrough near Izyum (Barvenkov-Lozovaya Operation) on 18. January 1942. German rushes all available units to seal emerging gap, among them 14. Panzer division. At the time14. Panzer was patchwork of different units (it consisted of units from, 14. Panzer, 1. Gebirgs and 100 Jäger division) and was also known as Stoss-division Hube after her commanding officer.

Does anyone known, why is General Hans Valentin Hube appointed commanding officer of 14. Panzer, instead of General Friedrich Kühn who was nominated CO of division at that time? Thanks in advance.

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genstab
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#2

Post by genstab » 13 Jan 2008, 15:04

I'm not sure he was. Bradley shows him as Kdr 16 Pz Div while forming from 1 Nov 1940 and also as Kdr Lehrstab II in Rumania (16 Pz Div moved to the Balkans in April 1941 and then to Pz Grp I, subsequently 1. Panzerarmee in June) until he took over XIV Pz Korps in Oct 1942. Also, in Jan 1942 14 Pz Div was in III Pz Corps while 16 Pz Div was in XIV Pz Korps (Tessin, 14 Pz Div & 16 Pz Div Unterstellungs).
If anyone has a copy of Hube's personnel record maybe there's a mention there of 14. Pz if he really commanded it; I have never found mention of it anywhere else.

Best regards,
Genstab


Jan-Hendrik
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#3

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 13 Jan 2008, 15:27

When I am back home I will have a look in the Scherzer Files...

Jan-Hendrik

Strovalnyk
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#4

Post by Strovalnyk » 14 Jan 2008, 11:25

Well, in Stoss division Hube order for 22. II. 1942. you can see composition and arrangement of division on that day. It/s goes:

Right: Kampfgruppe v. Schlieben:
Units:
I. /108. Battalion
II. /108. Battalion
I. /103. Battalion
Machine gun battalion 9.
Tanks from armored group Müller and Scheuer.
Left: Kampfgruppe Neibecker:
Units:
II. /227. Battalion
III. /227. Battalion
III. /369. Battalion (Croatian) (without HQ and 1. reinforced company, they are positioned in Maryanka.)
Ski Company Possinger
Tanks from armored group Otto
Center: Kampfgruppe Picker:
Units:
I. /98. Battalion
II. /99. Battalion
I. Battery, II. Group from 79. artillery regiment
4 tanks from armored group Otto.
Left neighbor: Kampfgruppe Kohlermann
Right neighbor: 100. Light Infantry Division

HQ for Stoss division Hube is from 14. Panzer Division. From this order it can bee seen that 14. Panzer is composed from various units from other divisions, but such was the case with every other German division in that theatre, because of nature of the fighting during Soviet breakthrough. Order is signed by Generalmajor Hube. I got first mention of Genralmajor Kühn on 23. April, when he decorated with EK II. five soldiers from Croatian III./369. Battalion.

histan
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#5

Post by histan » 14 Jan 2008, 20:03

For once all of the main sources (Scherzer, Wegman & Zweng, Bradley and Keilig) are in agreement on the commanders of 14 Pz Div and 16 Pz Div as being Friedrich Kühn and Hans Hube respectively. Hube's HPA file does not mention him commanding 14 Pz Div

Rolf Grams Die 14 Panzer-Division p33 says that a formation "Stossgruppe Hube" was formed (31 January 1942?) from elements of 14 Pz Div, 16 Pz Div and 100 le Div and that on 2 February "Stossgruppe Sanne" was formed from elements of 14 Pz Div and 100 le Div.

If Stossgruppe Hube was formed from elements of 16 Pz Div as well as 14 Pz Div Hube does not have to change command of one division to another.

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Dieter Zinke
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#6

Post by Dieter Zinke » 14 Jan 2008, 20:27

Gruppe Hube (Kdr. 16.PD) with Heeresgruppe Süd:

02.02.1942 directly under HGr. Süd
06.02. - 24.02.1942 (with Gruppe Sanne, Kohlermann and Rohwedder) in Gruppe v. Mackensen/Armeegruppe v. Kleist
08.03. - 13.03.1942 directly under HGr. Süd
17.03. - 24.03.1942 (with Gruppen Sanne, Lanz, Kohlermann and Zimmer) in Gruppe v. Mackensen/Armeegruppe v. Kleist
28.03. - 02.04.1942 under XXXXIX. Gebirgskorps

Source:
Tessin, Georg: Verbände und Truppen der deutschen Wehrmacht und Waffen-SS im Zweiten Weltkrieg 1939-1945, Band 17 (Register der Namensverbände; ff), bearbeitet auf Grund der Unterlagen des Bundesarchiv-Militärarchivs von Brün Meyer, Biblio Verlag, Bissendorf 2002
page 106


Dieter Z.

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genstab
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#7

Post by genstab » 15 Jan 2008, 00:34

Sure enough, "Gr. Hube, Sanne u. Kolermann" (sic) shows up under Gr. v. Macensen (III. AK mot) in the 6.2.42 OKH Kriegsgliederung. It contains 14. Pz Div, 100. Lt Div and the rueckw. Armee Gebiet- but not Hube's 16. Panzer Div, which is shown as under XIV. AK Mot. in 1. Pz Armee, separated from Gr./ Mackensen by 17. Armee.

In the 10.3.42 OKH Kriegsgliederung "Gr. Sanne, Hube, Lanz" is still shown under Gr. v. Mackensen, which is still under Armeegr. v. Kleist, not directly under Hgr. Sud. Again,l 14. Pz Div is there as is 100. Lt Div, 1 Geb. Div and 60. ID mot. but not 16. Pz Div, still in XIV. AK mot in 1. Pz Armee.

The same "Gr.Sanne, Hube u. Lanz" is still under Gr. v. Mackensen, Armeegr. v. Kleist in the 17.3 OKH Kriegsgliederung, still with 14. Pz, and 16. Pz Div is still in XIV. AK mot, 1. Pz Armee. This hasn't changed in the 24.3 OKH Kriegsgliederung,
or by the 5.4.42 OKH Kriegsgliederung.

If Hans Huabe didn't leave 16. Pandzer Division, is it possible there is another Hube commanding one of these units, possibly an Oberst mFb?

Best regards,
Genstab

Strovalnyk
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#8

Post by Strovalnyk » 15 Jan 2008, 13:00

Rolf Grams Die 14 Panzer-Division p33 says that a formation "Stossgruppe Hube" was formed (31 January 1942?) from elements of 14 Pz Div, 16 Pz Div and 100 le Div and that on 2 February "Stossgruppe Sanne" was formed from elements of 14 Pz Div and 100 le Div.
In various Gruppen that fights within 14. Panzer (or Stoss Division Hube ) and 100. Light Inf. Div. (or division Sanne) I didn't find any elements from 16. Panzer.
If Hans Huabe didn't leave 16. Pandzer Division, is it possible there is another Hube commanding one of these units, possibly an Oberst mFb?
Order for 22. II. 1942. that I cited in previous post is signed by Generalmajor Hube, so I think it must be Generalmajor Hans Valentin Hube.
Sure enough, "Gr. Hube, Sanne u. Kolermann" (sic) shows up under Gr. v. Macensen (III. AK mot) in the 6.2.42 OKH Kriegsgliederung. It contains 14. Pz Div, 100. Lt Div and the rueckw. Armee Gebiet- but not Hube's 16. Panzer Div, which is shown as under XIV. AK Mot. in 1. Pz Armee, separated from Gr./ Mackensen by 17. Armee.

In the 10.3.42 OKH Kriegsgliederung "Gr. Sanne, Hube, Lanz" is still shown under Gr. v. Mackensen, which is still under Armeegr. v. Kleist, not directly under Hgr. Sud. Again,l 14. Pz Div is there as is 100. Lt Div, 1 Geb. Div and 60. ID mot. but not 16. Pz Div, still in XIV. AK mot in 1. Pz Armee.
That’s how I see it too. So, why Generalmajor Kühn didn't command those Gruppen around 14. Panzer HQ?

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JC
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#9

Post by JC » 16 Jan 2008, 17:18

FWIW, GM Kühn received the DKiG on 22.04.42. I assume that it was awarded for actions during this period, so I would guess that the Vorschlag for the award would reveal his activities at this time. Anyone have a copy?

BR............JC

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