Execution of Hermann Fegelein

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g.l.s.h
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Post by g.l.s.h » 10 Dec 2005 17:13

Matt Gibbs wrote:A very interesting bit there, I had not read any of the testimony of Mohnke.
Anyone read or heard of any more info.
There is some iscrepancy on this site about who went to arrest Fegelein, 3 names have been posted in connection with this.
Who exactly was it?
Regards
Matt Gibbs
O'Donell seems to be the only writer who really looked into this issue for the very purpose of finding out what had happened from the "detective" eye and not as a side show to the main narrative – the Hitler end. He did interview a mass of witnesses but as in other places in his book, he tends to go too far with his interpretations, and since he's not always giving the full quotes of the witness's words, we could not truly relay on all he writes.

Still even by his story the bottom line is that the main witness is either gone or silent. Mohnke seems to be telling the full truth, but as O'Donell tells us, he was highly sensitive to military hierarchy and procedure, so if he ever did more then he told him, there was a good reason FOR HIM not to tell the full truth, even if us readers would not get a bad impression knowing he did more to have him shot.
JIB wrote:Why was his body never found by the Russians during the post-war investigations?

Anyone have any ideas?

Josh
By the time the Russians were searching the garden, what was left of him was a decomposing corpse at most (and maybe also corrupted by shellfire ext.). The people who got the repulsing "job" of exhuming such bodies, probably didn't spent a second look at any "non Hitler". I never heard of the Russians too enthusiastic about other bodies they could assume to be found around (Burgedorf; Bormann) or even such that could have been easily found (Hewell). We may assume that his body was finally removed as a "public health" problem much like most other bodies. It could also be that his body was put together with the dead wounded soldiers from the Chancelleries aid station by someone prior to May 2nd. In either way, it probably won't be traced ever.

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Luft300
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Post by Luft300 » 13 Dec 2005 05:06

If I remember correctly some of those RSD men in the Führerbunker were never accounted for... they seemed to have vanished, found their way out of the bunker and possibly Berlin, or been killed in the attempt. They could have been the ones that participated in the execution - nobody ever interviewed them and they were probably wanted by the Allies so they wouldn't have been bragging about shooting an SS General... would have kept quiet. Just some thoughts...

Luft300

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Post by Pentanov » 13 Dec 2005 14:35

(Edited out)
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g.l.s.h
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Post by g.l.s.h » 13 Dec 2005 15:38

Pentanov wrote:
O'Donell seems to be the only writer who really looked into this issue for the very purpose of finding out what had happened from the "detective" eye and not as a side show to the main narrative
Quite right, but he does not say where he got his information from. Some of the info about a supposed court martial is unsupported by any witness testamonies or interrogations.
.

he claimed he heard it from Mohnke. Questioning Monhke is his greatest achivement, since all the others have spoken before. However he (O'Donell) usually gets too far with his own interpetations. I believe he was eager to find something "new" about this Fegelein incident, and when one is convinced such story exist, he would find it.

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Post by Pentanov » 13 Dec 2005 16:38

(Edited out)
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wolfangel
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Post by wolfangel » 16 Dec 2005 19:02

Today on the "History Channel", I saw a program entitled "Hitlers End".
In it a man named Kurt Larson claimed to be a member of the Fuhrer Escort Battalion at the end of the war.The interview was conducted after the war,as the man interviewed had silver hair and looked to be in his mid 70's.
He told the story that he was one of the members of the FEB sent to pick up Fegelein at his home.Larson claims they picked up Fegelein but that he attempted to escape and was shot.
He makes no mention of where this occured,either at Fegelein's home,the Fuhrer bunker,in transit,whatever.He also does not say who ordered them to pick up Fegelein.He does say that Fegeleins "pockets were stuffed",but does not mention his being drunk or any other detail.
In the show it is suggested that Hitler did not want Fegelein executed but was done by order of Hitler's aide-de-camp.However,no proof is given if this is true.

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Post by Pentanov » 19 Dec 2005 10:00

(Edited out)
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g.l.s.h
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Post by g.l.s.h » 19 Dec 2005 16:45

Pentanov wrote:
wolfangel wrote:Today on the "History Channel", I saw a program entitled "Hitlers End".
In it a man named Kurt Larson claimed to be a member of the Fuhrer Escort Battalion at the end of the war.The interview was conducted after the war,as the man interviewed had silver hair and looked to be in his mid 70's.
He told the story that he was one of the members of the FEB sent to pick up Fegelein at his home.Larson claims they picked up Fegelein but that he attempted to escape and was shot.
He makes no mention of where this occured,either at Fegelein's home,the Fuhrer bunker,in transit,whatever.He also does not say who ordered them to pick up Fegelein.He does say that Fegeleins "pockets were stuffed",but does not mention his being drunk or any other detail.
In the show it is suggested that Hitler did not want Fegelein executed but was done by order of Hitler's aide-de-camp.However,no proof is given if this is true.
Interesting, but every other witness says he was brought back to the Führerbunker. This program makes a big deal of the influence of Günsche in Fegeleins execution. Considering their respective ranks, I doubt this.
Not only rank. Guensche wasn’t involved in any matters such as this – he was not much more then a spectator to most events, a part and point of view revealed also from interviews he gave after the war (his personal "tone" could be felt in P. Galantes "Voices from the bunker" where the reader could almost hear the tone of his voice: one of a servant talking about great things happening around him). He was probably much like his image in "The Untergang. However the fact that all eyewitnesses of any of those events, even people who were teenagers, would be out of reach soon, we might expect quite a few revisionist "stunning" pieces of truth about this or that small event in the bunker to come. Those would be the only excuse to produce new films where computer reconstructions, and wild theories, would compensate the lack of interviews.

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Post by Mark Costa » 19 Dec 2005 16:51

There is a new book called simply " The Hitler Book" based on the secret Soviet interrogations of Guensche and Linge that have just been released. This book which re-prints Guensche and Linge own testimony word for word leaves no doubt that Guensche indeed had some influence regarding Fegelein's execution. These interrogations took place in 1945-1955 in Soviet captivity, long before the revisionists started up. They are very interesting reading and lends new light on the whole Bunker ordeal.


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Matt Gibbs
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Post by Matt Gibbs » 19 Dec 2005 19:19

Hmm, interesting Mark;
as long as its not interviews of the "keep me alive I know interesting stuff" kind.
Regards
MG

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Panzerkommandant
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Post by Panzerkommandant » 26 Sep 2006 18:14

As seen in "Der Untergang" Hermann Fegelein is shot [with an MP-40] by an officer outside a building. Offcaurse I know some stuff is'nt historicaly corect in the movie, but why do you think they chose to use this as Fegeleins and, and not anything else?

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Post by Max Williams » 10 Apr 2007 16:50

I wanted to re-open this discussion as I find the episode around the arrest and execution of Fegelein fascinating.
Everyone seems to gloss over the most important character in this drama....Fegelein's mistress. He was a well known womaniser and was often in the company of beautiful women. This particular attractive woman was believed to be of Irish nationality and married to a high ranking Hungarian diplomat in Admiral Horthy's service. In late 1944, her husband was arrested by the Gestapo and she was left stranded in Berlin with little or no means of support. Apparently, she became a short-term lover of Goebbels who found her employment working for a radio station. It was whilst with Goebbels that she caught the eye of Fegelein. She was believed to be in the pay of the British secret service, members of which remember her by her nickname of Mata O'Hara. Members of Hitler's staff remember her being in the company of Fegelein, but never at the Reichschancellery. It is strongly suspected that Fegelein leaked information to the British via this woman during bedroom activities and also that she was the mystery woman in Fegelein's secret apartment when Hoegl arrived to advise Fegelein of Hitler's wish (via Rattenhuber) that he present himself at the Reichschancellery immediately. The woman cleverly made her escape through a kitchen window on the pretext of getting water for some cognac that Fegelein had offered his "guests". At this point, Hoegl had no orders to forcibly return Fegelein to the Reichschancellery, so he did not pay much attention to the woman, much to his subsequent regret. Her identity remains a mystery.
Max.

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Fegelein story bogus

Post by giordansmith » 17 Apr 2007 06:13

Personally, I am convinced that most stories concerned with the 'last days of the Third Reich' are bogus, including the one concerning Fegelein. They make nice sensational stories, but are bogus from top to bottom.The more closely you examine them, and the more carefully you compare the testimony of the different so-called witnesses, the more ridiculous they get.

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Re: Fegelein story bogus

Post by Max Williams » 17 Apr 2007 08:13

giordansmith wrote:Personally, I am convinced that most stories concerned with the 'last days of the Third Reich' are bogus, including the one concerning Fegelein. They make nice sensational stories, but are bogus from top to bottom.The more closely you examine them, and the more carefully you compare the testimony of the different so-called witnesses, the more ridiculous they get.
The trouble with your observation is that in many cases (as in the Fegelein scenario) there are numerous independent witnesses who agree on their stories.
Max.

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Re: Fegelein story bogus

Post by Simon Gunson » 08 Nov 2010 11:16

Max Williams wrote:
giordansmith wrote:Personally, I am convinced that most stories concerned with the 'last days of the Third Reich' are bogus, including the one concerning Fegelein. They make nice sensational stories, but are bogus from top to bottom.The more closely you examine them, and the more carefully you compare the testimony of the different so-called witnesses, the more ridiculous they get.
The trouble with your observation is that in many cases (as in the Fegelein scenario) there are numerous independent witnesses who agree on their stories.
Max.
Problem is though that these multiple sources all conflict what happened to Fegelein. For example Baur's account differs from Günsche's. Nobody actually ever witnessed the execution according to O'Donnell who carefully interviewed bunker survivors.

I would even entertain the possibility that he was not executed and the story was an invention of bunker survivors before it fell to the Soviets. Reitsch's account differs dramatically with bunker survivors and it was said to have occured just two hours before she and von Greim flew out. How could she have gotten it so wrong?
Reitsch later admitted she did not witness it and it was only rumoured.

The woman who most closely matches Fegelein's description seems to be Baroness Mary Allison Gerstenberger-Miske. It is known she survived the war but was arrested by the soviets when returning to Hungary in 1947 to settle the affairs of her husband. She was imprisoned by the Soviets as a British spy and only released in 1955.

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