The official AHF China at War 1895-1949 quiz thread

Discussions on all aspects of China, from the beginning of the First Sino-Japanese War till the end of the Chinese Civil War. Hosted by YC Chen.
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Re: The official AHF China at War 1895-1949 quiz thread

Postby YC Chen » 10 Sep 2010 10:46

The next question is: Name the commander and two vice-commanders of the "North Army"(the anti-NRA force, also called "ANGUO(安国) Army") in 1927.

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Re: The official AHF China at War 1895-1949 quiz thread

Postby YC Chen » 17 Sep 2010 12:41

Some additional info: the commander was the famous "Mukden Tiger", and one of the vice-commander was famous for his White Russian troops, the other one was a warlord of 5 provinces.

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Re: The official AHF China at War 1895-1949 quiz thread

Postby Mischa » 26 Sep 2010 07:11

YC Chen wrote:Some additional info: the commander was the famous "Mukden Tiger", and one of the vice-commander was famous for his White Russian troops, the other one was a warlord of 5 provinces.


Hi,
Zhang Zuolin - Zhang was fiercely anti-communist and supported restoration of the Qing dynasty. His nicknames include the "Old Marshal" (大帥), "Rain Marshal" (雨帥)and "Mukden Tiger". The press referred to him as "Marshal Chang Tso-lin, Tuchun of Manchuria."[2] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Zuolin

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Re: The official AHF China at War 1895-1949 quiz thread

Postby YC Chen » 26 Sep 2010 11:48

Yes! He was the commander. Anyone knows about the two vice-commanders? They were both famous warlords in Chinese history.

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Re: The official AHF China at War 1895-1949 quiz thread

Postby fer-de-lance » 17 Aug 2011 05:21

Sun, Chuan-fang (孫傳芳) and Zhang, Zong-chang (張宗昌)... ?

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Re: The official AHF China at War 1895-1949 quiz thread

Postby YC Chen » 06 Sep 2011 04:38

fer-de-lance wrote:Sun, Chuan-fang (孫傳芳) and Zhang, Zong-chang (張宗昌)... ?

Yes! So it's your turn now...

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Re: The official AHF China at War 1895-1949 quiz thread

Postby fer-de-lance » 12 Dec 2011 04:27

During World War II, what was the largest Imperial Japanese warship sunk by a ship manned by a Chinese crew?

Clues:

The Japanese warship displaced over 10,000 t and was armed to the teeth with heavy guns and torpedoes ...

The ship that sank her was not Chinese flagged ...

The gun that sank the Japanese was American but the gun crew wasn't ...

The gun crew was not Chinese but they weren't of the same nationality as the ship owner either ...

Someone else claimed credit for the sinking but the Japanese reported that they were hit by the Chinese-manned vessel ...

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Re: The official AHF China at War 1895-1949 quiz thread

Postby AVV » 13 Dec 2011 11:48

Hello!
Auxiliary cruiser Hokoku Maru?
http://www.combinedfleet.com/Hokoku_t.htm

Best regards, Aleks

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Re: The official AHF China at War 1895-1949 quiz thread

Postby fer-de-lance » 23 Dec 2011 02:19

Bingo!

The Dutch owned tanker Ondina was manned by a Chinese crew and had a British / Australian gun crew manning an ex-USN 4-in 50 cal gun taken off retired 4-piper destroyers. The Ondina and her escort were set upon by a pair of IJN auxiliary cruisers AIKOKU MARU and HOKOKOU MARU converted from 10,000 line luxury liners. As Aleks' link describes, a lucky hit from the Ondina "HOKOKU MARU's starboard torpedo tube which had just been loaded. After the ensuing explosion, a fire breaks out that rages out of control and reaches the aft magazine. "

The HOKOKU MARU was blown off in the ensuing explosion. Her sister ship the AIKOKU MARU was sunk by USN aircraft in the Truk anchorage in 1944. She was also blown in half, a hit in the bow explodes ammunition stored in the forward hold blowing off her bow.

Your turn to set a question.

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Re: The official AHF China at War 1895-1949 quiz thread

Postby AVV » 23 Dec 2011 17:17

Thanks!
Now an easy question - what ship?

Best regards, Aleks
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Re: The official AHF China at War 1895-1949 quiz thread

Postby YC Chen » 24 Dec 2011 05:59

Ning Hai(甯海) or Ping Hai(平海)? Just a guess. I'm not an expert at ships and I have never seen this two photos.

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Re: The official AHF China at War 1895-1949 quiz thread

Postby AVV » 25 Dec 2011 15:11

Hello!
I'm afraid no. This ship was built in Europe and initially not for Chinese Navy.

Best regards, Aleks

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Re: The official AHF China at War 1895-1949 quiz thread

Postby ROLAND1369 » 25 Dec 2011 18:37

It is the former HMS Aurora which was transferred to the Nationalist Chinese government and named Chung King. She was sunk at her mooring by Red Chinese Aircraft in tTaku harbor in March 1949 and while salvaged and renamed she was not put back in service.

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Re: The official AHF China at War 1895-1949 quiz thread

Postby Edward Chen » 25 Dec 2011 20:32

Actually right ship, wrong details.

The ship is the CNS Chung King, formerly the British Arethusa-class light cruiser HMS Aurora, as correctly identified by Roland1369.

The photos shows her sometime between March 18, 1949, when the bombing attacks began, and some time after March 20, 1949, when she capsized by the pier at Huludao, Liaoning Province. (Not Taku, which is in the Tianjin region.)

The ship was sunk by the Nationalist Chinese Air Force, as it was a defecting warship already in Communist hands. (Come to think, this was a curious case of a British-built warship sunk by American-built aircraft!)

Much of the English-language information (as published in Janes, Conways, et al) regarding the postwar career of the former HMS Aurora in Chinese service is all wrong.
I'm surprised no one has corrected this yet.

When CNS Chung King entered service with the Republic of China Navy in 1948 as their fleet flagship, her first captain (and only captain in ROCN service), Deng Zhaoxiang [邓兆祥; 1903-1998], was secretly a Communist sympathizer. During the Battle of Tashan (part of the Liao-Shen Campaign), when the Nationalists deployed their most powerful fleet assets including the cruiser CNS Chung King and CNS Lin Fu (former British destroyer escort HMS Mendip) for shore bombardment, and probably should have blasted the PLA positions at Tashan into oblivion with their weight of fire, It was Captain Deng who ordered his ship pulled way off shore, claiming the waters were too shallow, which also rendered the ship's fire inaccurate and useless.
On February 25, 1949, while the CNS Chung King was anchored at Wusongkou in the Shanghai region, Captain Deng announced his defection to the Communists and sailed the ship with its 574-man crew to Communist-held Yantai (aka Chefoo), Shandong. Over the next three weeks, the ROC Air Force mounted a major effort to locate and destroy the Chung King, as follows:

Mar 3: ROCAF 8th Group sent four B-24 heavy bombers flying out of Shanghai against Yantai, but failed to hit the Chung King. The cruiser left Yantai for Huludao.
Mar 16: After several days of aerial reconnaissance scouring every harbor along Liaodong Bay, the ROCAF located the Chung King at Huludao. The ROCAF forward-deployed seven B-24's from the 8th Group from Shanghai to Qingdao (then still in Nationalist hands).
Mar 18: Four B-24's attack the Chung King at Huludao. One hit scored.
Mar 19: All seven B-24's attack the Chung King at Huludao. Three more hits scored. Ship left listing and on fire.
Mar 20: Chung King capsized. The Nationalist Air Force sources I consulted state that forty tons of bombs (500lb and 1000lb bombs) were expended to sink their former fleet flagship.

According to Chinese-language Wikipedia, the post-1949 career of the ex-HMS Aurora is as follows (hereafter the ship’s name is given in Pinyin, as it is now under PRC control):

1950 Feb: A Chongqing salvaging committee is established, to raise the vessel.
1951 Apr: Salvaging efforts begin; on May 16, the ship is refloated. Senior Communist leaders visit the ship over the next few years, including Zhou Enlai and Marshal He Long (Jul 1, 1951); Marshal Zhu De (Sep 1953); Marshals Peng Dehuai and Ye Jianying, Deputy Party Chairman Liao Shaoqi and Deputy Premier Deng Xiaoping in fall 1955.
Chongqing is towed to Dalian for repairs, but Soviet naval experts deem the ship not worth repairing, and then begin dismantling, taking some of her components back to the Soviet Union, while other components are sent to Qinghua University and the Harbin Military Engineering Institute for study.
1959 Oct 27: The Navy transfers the ship over to the Ministry of Transportation Shanghai Salvaging Department, where she served as a storage hulk and renamed Huang He (“Yellow River”). Plans were conceived to restore the ship to service as an ocean-going salvage ship, using components from the salvaged hulk of the former Qing Imperial-era/Nationalist Navy cruiser Hai Yung (scuttled September 1937 in the Yangzi River as a blockship).
1964: Transferred to the Bohai Oil Company No. 641 Engineering Department based at Tianjin as a floating dormitory, renamed Beijing.
Said to have been finally disposed of between 1980-1990.

It’s mentioned that the hulk was still extant when the Type 051-class (Luda-class) guided missile destroyer Chongqing was commissioned in 1974, thus setting the amusing (but short-lived) precedent of two ships named Chongqing in existence at the same time.

Hope this helps,

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Re: The official AHF China at War 1895-1949 quiz thread

Postby AVV » 26 Dec 2011 15:44

Hello!
Edward Chen wrote:Actually right ship, wrong details.

Yes.
Edward, thanks for a great info, still I think that next question should go to ROLAND1369.
Source: http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Magazin ... res/34.jpg

Best regards, Aleks


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