SS silverware: LAH or HAL?

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Sergei Vereshchagin
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SS silverware: LAH or HAL?

Post by Sergei Vereshchagin » 29 Apr 2008 20:01

Whether the utensils on a photo refers to SS? Any info are necessary: a photo, stories, documents... Everything.
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Sergei Vereshchagin
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Re: SS silverware: LAH or HAL?

Post by Sergei Vereshchagin » 29 Apr 2008 20:09

Symbolics on each copy: Leibstandarte or Hamburg America Line ?
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John G.
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Re: SS silverware: LAH or HAL?

Post by John G. » 30 Apr 2008 16:30

It's the monogram for the "Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler" (Not Hamburg/Amerika Line)....however, what are the other markings (Maker, silver content, etc.) usually found on the base? The "style" of these isn't exactly typical (not that I've seen that much LAH Silver) but it would be extremely easy to engrave old silver pieces with the monogram and age them...not saying these aren't good.....just need picture of makers marks, etc., also of marking on several differant items from the collection to compare.....but what shown looks "ok" so far.....
SS stuff is always trickey....
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phil brown
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Re: SS silverware: LAH or HAL?

Post by phil brown » 30 Apr 2008 18:50

i agree with john not typical, but i feel the monogram is poorly done, i would pass, but john knows more than me.

Sergei Vereshchagin
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Re: SS silverware: LAH or HAL?

Post by Sergei Vereshchagin » 01 May 2008 12:32

Maker mark WELLNER, KRUPP. DATA 1913, 1914 ....
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John G.
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Re: SS silverware: LAH or HAL?

Post by John G. » 01 May 2008 16:11

"Wellner" is certianly a well known German Silversmith who's company definately made lot's of 3rd Reich Silverware and "table service". HOWEVER, the early style of the markings and the dates (?) either mean these have had the "LAH" added to jazz them up.....or the LAH was using recycled silver settings. I don't know which is the case....either is possible but I have a hard time believing the LAH was using recycled silver.....
Are these for sale (or did you buy them from a dealer already), did they come from a "vet", were they "battlefield recovered"....or what. I don't think I'd pay any big money for these....too easy to fake for my taste.
However, if Granddad brought these home from Berlin at the end of the war....I would treasure them!
Sorry I can't be more help....certianly "questionable" without provenance.
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Sergei Vereshchagin
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Re: SS silverware: LAH or HAL?

Post by Sergei Vereshchagin » 02 May 2008 08:41

In Russia and Ukraine in collections some tens of utensils items
with a monogram "LAH" are known. Similar shown on a photo.
If it is items from ships HAPAG (or Humburg America Line in English), then such subjects
should be in Hamburg (where there were no Russian) and America...
Not in Berlin - Lichterfelde, which was taken by Red Army.
The theme is discussed in the Armourer magazine.

Armourer issue 86, March/April 2008, page 80
"The Kitchen Collectables of the SS"

Armourer 87, May/June 2008, p.93
"All that glisters may not be SS silverware"

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Auseklis
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Re: SS silverware: LAH or HAL?

Post by Auseklis » 02 May 2008 14:05

We talked about this items in a german board some years ago (sorry can't find it on the net anymore)...
Anyhow, someone showed clear evidence back then, that this is HAL (pre WW1, as you can tell even on the style of the items) and NOT LAH...

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Re: SS silverware: LAH or HAL?

Post by John G. » 03 May 2008 02:54

I haven't seen the "evidence", and certianly am willing to admitt I could be totally incorrect.....but I've had several "Hamburg Amerika" cap talleys, stick pins, post cards, and odd pc. of china, etc. and they all show the company Lago as being a shield with anchor & company letters H.A.P.A.G. (Their Steamship Flag emblem)...."never" just the H.A.L., and I don't believe the Leibstandarte could have used a previously registered LAGO if it had been.....
I still say much more likely old silver service that's had the "LAH" added....I have my doubts about it being genuine SS LAH silver, but I don't believe it's Steamship ware either. However, I been proven wrong before....
Just more food for thought.....
John G.

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Re: SS silverware: LAH or HAL?

Post by Auseklis » 03 May 2008 09:39

Mainemilitaria wrote:I haven't seen the "evidence", and certianly am willing to admitt I could be totally incorrect.....but I've had several "Hamburg Amerika" cap talleys, stick pins, post cards, and odd pc. of china, etc. and they all show the company Lago as being a shield with anchor & company letters H.A.P.A.G. (Their Steamship Flag emblem)...."never" just the H.A.L., and I don't believe the Leibstandarte could have used a previously registered LAGO if it had been.....



The HAPAG items are just post WW1... The HAL is pre WW1.

Sergei Vereshchagin
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Re: SS silverware: LAH or HAL?

Post by Sergei Vereshchagin » 04 May 2008 03:16

Photos which I have taken from Russian discussion board:
http://ww2.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=61579
These photos probably from American(?) Internetshop(?).
See photos (part one):
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Last edited by Sergei Vereshchagin on 04 May 2008 03:23, edited 3 times in total.

Sergei Vereshchagin
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Re: SS silverware: LAH or HAL?

Post by Sergei Vereshchagin » 04 May 2008 03:18

The second part:
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John G.
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Re: SS silverware: LAH or HAL?

Post by John G. » 04 May 2008 12:36

I stand corrected.....surprised the later "LAH" used the same monogram but like I said, I've been wrong before....
Thanks for clearing this up....I didn't think they were Leibstandarte (original).....but no question the silver service is H.A.L. (Thank you Sergei)
John G.

Sergei Vereshchagin
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Re: SS silverware: LAH or HAL?

Post by Sergei Vereshchagin » 05 May 2008 10:13

Text from "Armourer":
"Peter Laister has written the Mariners Memorabilia in
two volumes.... In these book many Hamburg America Line
items in both china and silver plate. One such piece
of china clearly shows around the edge of the dish at
bottom, the HAPAG crest and the top of the dish a gold
HAL monogram." - from the P. Laister text...

If someone have the book " Mariners Memorabilia " by Peter Laister,
I ask to expose here a photo of a subject about which goes in the text above.
It is interesting to learn saw somebody monogram HAL on any subjects too.

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Re: SS silverware: LAH or HAL?

Post by irvcat » 24 Apr 2011 02:16

new to this site. i have a silver creamer i think its a creamer on it is the lah or hal . my dad was in the SS. he came to Canada in 1951 and it came with him. my mom used it for about 50yr. kept cream in it. now it sits on my desk being used as a pen holder, not good. i asked him one time were he got it from ,he would only say it was Hitlers silver, and not to ask again. i did not ask again. any information or comments would be welcome. also have pic.

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