1945 Lost German girl

Discussions on the role played by and situation of women in the Third Reich not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Vikki.
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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 07 Nov 2020 00:55

I found on facebook a group from Rokycany - Ejpovice 1945, in it there is a lot of vintage material and several videos, among them there is again a filming of the place that I went up before near where LGG was filmed, in this film you can see a little Sbernem temporary detention camp near the LGG station, according to Michaela Spružinová LGG is being held there

Image
Image

Sbernem temporary detention camp
Image

Video and facebook
https://www.facebook.com/marcel.beran.3 ... 840334761/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/300093803980178


.

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Hans1906
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Hans1906 » 07 Nov 2020 01:19

Good morning Carlos,

a very personal question to you is certainly allowed here, what is your motivation for this tragic story?

Is there a personal connection to this topic for you, or what are your reasons for getting so involved, that would be my question?

An answer would certainly be interesting, not only for me here in the forum.

Take care!


Hans1906
Es ist im Leben wichtig, viel zu wissen.
Manchmal ist es noch wichtiger, zu wissen, daß man nichts weiß.

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 07 Nov 2020 01:34

in the same facebook group is this footage that is not in chronological order, it shows the arrival of the SS troops, which was several after the surrender (and LGG's filming) you can see the marked tree again in other footage, it is In this footage you can see again the temporary detention camp Sbernem, as you can see it is not very far from where LGG was filmed, in that footage you can see a group of women from Flak Waffen Helferinnen who have already gone up before but the angle of the camera does not allow knowing where it was filmed

Image

Sbernem temporary detention camp
Image

Image
Image

video
https://www.facebook.com/marcel.beran.3 ... 568737722/

.

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 07 Nov 2020 02:07

Hans1906 wrote:
07 Nov 2020 01:19
Good morning Carlos,

a very personal question to you is certainly allowed here, what is your motivation for this tragic story?

Is there a personal connection to this topic for you, or what are your reasons for getting so involved, that would be my question?

An answer would certainly be interesting, not only for me here in the forum.

Take care!


Hans1906


Hello Hans1906, I liked the history that was formed in this forum, unfortunately I was a little late, I try to look for small clues to know something about it, as most of us are not historians and the only tools that I know are within our reach is the internet, This forum was formed in just a few steps, formulating theories, trying to give identity to a being that until recently nothing was known, there is not much but it is a step, we may not know the identity of the young woman or what happened to her but it is a step to do something ... regards

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Hans1906
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Hans1906 » 07 Nov 2020 02:38

Carlos,

I have written before about the escape of my grandmother, and my mother from the Sudetenland earlier.

Both of them probably experienced horrible times, but all this is more than 75 years ago.
They are dead and gone, this may sound bad, but it is exactly what happened.

I would not want to open the old wounds again, especially since I am missing most of the information here.
The people have run for their lives, back to Germany, in the midst of a more than murderous mob, in search of revenge and retribution.

With all this we should never forget how much and terribly the people there suffered under the German occupation, that is also important...
Revenge always hit, and always hits the innocent, the topic is always topical, but who am I telling.

I am nowadays aware, why my mother was never able to talk about all this, these experiences for sure often shaped her later life,
these childhood wounds never healed until her last day.

* And Ingrid was more than happy, during our visit in the early 1970s, to see her beloved Sudetenland once again.
She cried a lot, and she always ran away, ashamed about her tears, a very touching experience.

Take care!


Hans1906
Es ist im Leben wichtig, viel zu wissen.
Manchmal ist es noch wichtiger, zu wissen, daß man nichts weiß.

fhafha
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by fhafha » 08 Nov 2020 12:57

CarlosXander wrote:
07 Nov 2020 01:34
in the same facebook group is this footage that is not in chronological order, it shows the arrival of the SS troops, which was several after the surrender (and LGG's filming) you can see the marked tree again in other footage, it is In this footage you can see again the temporary detention camp Sbernem, as you can see it is not very far from where LGG was filmed, in that footage you can see a group of women from Flak Waffen Helferinnen who have already gone up before but the angle of the camera does not allow knowing where it was filmed

Image

Sbernem temporary detention camp
Image

Image
Image

video
https://www.facebook.com/marcel.beran.3 ... 568737722/

.
Your top pictures are from the 9th of May, left in the morning, surender of the mixed Recce abtng from 20PZ DIv and 2SS PZ DIV, there are many foortages and pictures of this scene. Right Picture is in the afternoon of the 9th when POW temporary camp are already settled, there is a footage of this also.

BTW nice found about this specific tree and the the men camp u can see from the woman camp. Both were settled East of Ejpovice on the 9th by 2INF div units after relieve of the 16th Armored. But from this perspective, I can tell the woman camp is exactly where the LGG sitting scene is and in front of LGG wlking scene is.

Best regards.





















Best regards

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 23 Nov 2020 00:23

FF7_12 wrote:
09 Oct 2020 15:50
I reckon the guy sitting to the right of LGG is also in the marchers, or at least there is a very plausible resemblance in my view. Open neck and the cord with the ID tag hanging from neck is visible in both pictures. Size, hairtsyle, mouth expression, smile, water bottle.
See pics below.


group1.pngmate 1 sits.PNGMate 1 marching_2.PNGMate 1 marching_4.PNG


I agree with FF7_12, it is similar, in the images where this hairstyle appears formed with a part in the middle of his hair, when he is next to LGG he has arranged his hair, in the filming where he marches to Pilsen you can see him sharing his food with other members and from what can be seen in the video it may be that he gives water from his canteen to LGG to clean his wound on his eye

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Hoover
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Hoover » 24 Nov 2020 12:49

Hi,
just one question for sorting the timeframe:
The pic of LGG is how long before the other pics of the detention camp and the Puma-picture? Or is it long after that. I am confused in that a little bit.

Again to say, that is one of the most thrilling threads here on AHF.

Bye
Frank

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 24 Nov 2020 20:20

Hi Frank
The LGG filming as we know is May 8, the filming that is observed by the 3 senior German officers is described as May 9-10, it is very likely to be May 9, the black and white filming in the same place as before can be on May 9 in the afternoon and where the “Pumas” of the 2SS PZ DIV are observed. The date of May 9 comes out, perhaps it is a little later than other films since it was the last unit that surrendered to the US.
Cheers

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Hoover
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Hoover » 28 Nov 2020 11:43

Thank you, now in the picture again

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 29 Nov 2020 02:33

Hello forum
here I found one more photo of the German women's detention camp in Sinzig, the photo is from May 12, 1945, according to the text if LGG "No" was identified as SS she would be here, otherwise she was sent to Ragensburg where they were assigned SS personnel

photo taken on May 12, 1945 in Sinzin
Image

photo taken in June 1945 in Sinzin
Image
the text of that photo says :
"PW camp for women at Sinzig, Germany. The women are kept in a separate enclosure from the men. They are fed three meals a day. The women are divided into two groups, each with a leader who is a German woman in charge of the group. These women were members of the German Army and Nurse Corps"

map of the allied detention camps
Image

And here my question would be, LGG was identified as SS?
In the only text that refers to LGG identifies her as SS Girl, unfortunately there are no more records but I believe that when she was filmed except for her clothes, she was believed to be a member of the SS since at that time most of the Waffer SS escaped with other clothes, that is why I think that LGG was identified as SS girl ... it is my opinion

Cheers

.

FF7_12
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by FF7_12 » 30 Nov 2020 12:10

CarlosXander wrote:
23 Nov 2020 00:23
FF7_12 wrote:
09 Oct 2020 15:50
I reckon the guy sitting to the right of LGG is also in the marchers, or at least there is a very plausible resemblance in my view. Open neck and the cord with the ID tag hanging from neck is visible in both pictures. Size, hairtsyle, mouth expression, smile, water bottle.
See pics below.


group1.pngmate 1 sits.PNGMate 1 marching_2.PNGMate 1 marching_4.PNG


I agree with FF7_12, it is similar, in the images where this hairstyle appears formed with a part in the middle of his hair, when he is next to LGG he has arranged his hair, in the filming where he marches to Pilsen you can see him sharing his food with other members and from what can be seen in the video it may be that he gives water from his canteen to LGG to clean his wound on his eye

Thanks for the reaction, Carlos !

and even more for you agreeing with me!

FF7_12
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LGG was SS?

Post by FF7_12 » 30 Nov 2020 12:22

Really don't see any evidence for that, apart from the shotsheet notes, which are not necessarily reliable.

There was a lot of discussion on the topic earlier in the forum, which was based on the diary of a girl who was part of the so-called SS-Alarm-Flakabteilung Prague. Those girls were Luftwaffe Flakhelferinnen who were assigned to that SS unit; they were not full members of the SS and didn't wear SS uniform.

They surrendered to the Americans at Rokycany on 9th May, having left Prague late on the 8th May. So LGG, arriving on 8th May, is there a day too early for that theory.

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 30 Nov 2020 20:22

If I read that part in the forum, while I was looking for something else I found that both the Luftwaffe Flakhelferinnen and the SS arrived in Rockycany on May 9 as seen in the videos, only the Heer arrived on May 8, also for that time the Heer was composed of various forces such as the Luftwaffe and others, and here are my doubts if she were from the SS would have to have arrived on May 9 or also from Flakhelferinnen ... more questions than answers ... thanks for responding, greetings

billbird2111
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by billbird2111 » 03 Dec 2020 19:47

Hans1906 wrote:
07 Nov 2020 02:38
Carlos,

I have written before about the escape of my grandmother, and my mother from the Sudetenland earlier.

Both of them probably experienced horrible times, but all this is more than 75 years ago.
They are dead and gone, this may sound bad, but it is exactly what happened.

I would not want to open the old wounds again, especially since I am missing most of the information here.
The people have run for their lives, back to Germany, in the midst of a more than murderous mob, in search of revenge and retribution.

With all this we should never forget how much and terribly the people there suffered under the German occupation, that is also important...
Revenge always hit, and always hits the innocent, the topic is always topical, but who am I telling.

I am nowadays aware, why my mother was never able to talk about all this, these experiences for sure often shaped her later life,
these childhood wounds never healed until her last day.

* And Ingrid was more than happy, during our visit in the early 1970s, to see her beloved Sudetenland once again.
She cried a lot, and she always ran away, ashamed about her tears, a very touching experience.

Take care!


Hans1906
Hello Hans,

This is my first post on the Axis History Forum. I came here to learn more about Lore Bauer, also known as the "Lost German Girl." Thanks to people like Carlos and others who have posted a lot of information here, I now have a more complete picture of this lady, who she was and what happened to her. This is why it's important for people like you, Carlos and many others to do the investigation work that has been done. It provides us with answers to numerous questions. It may not answer all of them. But it answers some of them.

It appears that you hold onto information, or have memories of, people who lived through this period. You speak of your mother. She may not have been able to speak much about this period in her history. But it appears you witnessed much. I would urge you, at some point, to document what you know and what you experienced. Because, generations from now, people are going to want answers. They will want to know more. They will want to know about your mother, Hans. They will also want to know more about you. You might think that details about your life and experiences are insignificant. I'm here to tell you that they are not. You have a story to tell. You are the child of a mother who lived in the Sudetenland. You were apparently with your mother when both of you visited the Sudetenland in the 1970's. It's important for you to document every single memory from that trip. Everything you can remember. Every reaction your mother had. Do you have brothers or sisters who were with you on that trip? Those memories should be listed as well. Otherwise, the stories die with us. You are the child of someone who lived through a world-changing event. Those memories are priceless. Years from now someone will want to know who you were and what life with your mother was like. It's important for you to tell the story that you can tell.

We do share a similar experience. My father was in the war. He was a very young man, no older than the "lost German girl." He was an American serving with the 4th Canadian Division, which invaded the Port City of Dieppe, France in 1942. My father was attached to the Essex Scottish Regiment. They were assigned to raid the portion of Dieppe called Red Beach. It was a disaster. Nobody from the Essex Scottish unit made it off the beach. Of the 650 men with my father on that day, only 50-55 made it back to the safety of the boats that brought them there. Many of them were badly wounded. My father was not among them. He never got off the beach. By the grace of God he was not shot and killed. He was captured and would spend the rest of the war in a series of POW Camps. However, hundreds of others were not so lucky. They died right there on that beach. What happened to my father during that six hour period affected him for the rest of his life. I didn't know it then. But I know it now.

I could go on and on about what happened to him. But you should know this much. He didn't say one word about his time in the war to his children. Not one word. The only thing he ever told me, as a seven year old boy, was that I didn't want to fight the Russians. The Russians, he told me, were mean. You have to put this conversation into perspective. It was 1970. I was seven. I didn't know much. America and the Soviet Union were locked into a brutal Cold War. My father was deathly afraid that he might have to sacrifice both of his sons in a war with the Russian Army. Fortunately, that did not happen. But I was too young to be told about the things my father witnessed and experienced. My brother and sister have learned what we know now through research, not first-hand stories. We were all too young to hear them. By the time I came to understand and really appreciate what my father had done, he was long gone. I was in my late twenties. I had numerous questions for my father, but it was too late. He passed away in 1972. I had nobody to talk too. My mother was gone too. I do remember the stories my mother told me about living on the West Coast of the United States after Pearl Harbor was attacked. I have written those stories down for others to read. Because it's important. She lived through a traumatic period. It's important for those memories to be preserved, in whatever way possible.

Trust me when I tell you that the stories about your mother are just as important and it's vitally important that you preserve what you know for future generations. Because they will want to know. And they will be very grateful for the actions you took to write these stories down and share them with others. You might think it's not important. But you're wrong. It is vitally important for you to do this.

Thank you, Carlos, for what you have done. I do not know who you are. But I thank you very much for what you have done, and continue to do.

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