Welcome to the Forum.
Thank you, it is a pleasure: j shall congratulate you because of the turn than your debate with Slon takes on, without chauvinists threads from both sides
I don't agree here with your speculation.
Speaking about "ashtonishing" I believe there were many greater candidates, some squadrons also mentioned at this thread.
Look Juha, we are all practicing global
english, wich is a kind of joke on oxford real/ sheakerspeare language.
But there is nothing to speculate
about. I only made a calculation
, a division
in fact. No speculation.
And maintain my adjective. J know what i'm talking about. Overclaim existed everyware and anytime. It was about 1.5-2 for french pilots in 1940, 2-2.5 for british and approx 3,1415927 (~ Pi) for german ones!
But 5.4-13,5 is
an astonishing one, compared on that (1.5) for bombers.
There is no mean
that finish or other pilots were liers. Some of them were of coarse, but the bulk of them, submitted to heavy g-forces, shacked by infernal manoeuveres in dogfight, turning the head and plane in all sides, in order to survive or kill had no time and no possibility
to fellow their real or supposed victims. Once more, all fighter planes of the mid-30ies were extremely nimble and weakly armed on the same time. Difficult to achieve another fighter in that conditions. It was the same picture in Spain, China, Nomonhan...
The captured and several ones shot down at Finnish territory (or open water) and also those that were lost becuse of accidents were the MIA.
Yes, but i was saying (wrighting) nothing else...
Some of them 8 I-153, 1 I-16, 5 I-15, captured in serviceable conditions and used by Finn's can hardly been considered as ilmavoïmat victories. (Either no, either insignificant ,dammage)
Some of them were results of aerial victories (and after that turned agaist their previous owners).
Ok, but wich one? The I-16?
They well might not have visited at the Russian archives at all, but just relying wrong information/people.
Anyway, seems to be a quite small typo/mistake.
Admit, that is a not serious job, even fantasy.
**in global english, we call confirmed kill or victory, a kill verified by the own side (he's proper troops or witnesses)of the pilot
A validated kill, a kill verified by the archives of the other side.
Any source for that?
Shall i justify to call "dog" a dog? This is the terminology used in other forums in order to avoïd confusion between the different kinds of verification. But do you want us to use other worlds. We are all using awfull mondial-global english, so in order to speak about the same thing, it's better to use precise terms.
My personal opinion is that a aerial victory is an own plane forcing an enemy plane down (with guns or not) so that the enemy plane becomes written off from their inventory.
We can also definite different cases of aerial victories
- 1 pilot killed, plane crashed directly on the combat aera
- 1a pilot bailed out, plane crashed on the combat aera
- 1b pilot wonded, plane made a emergency landing on the combat aera
- 2 plane damaged, retired from the fight, crashed on the way tu return on ennemy side (abc pilot killed, wouded...etc)
- 3 plane damaged, retired from the fight, crashed on it's side (abc...)
- 4 plane damager, retired from the fight, crashed on it's own base, pilot killed, wounded
- 5 plane damaged, made a emergency landing on the ennemy side
etc...xxx- plane damaged, returned to it's base safely, pilot ok but plane written off due to combat damages
This is an important choice, most of the fights are taking place on the finish side, chances to save pilot's or planes were bigger.