Pfalz A-II in Ottoman service

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
User avatar
TISO
Member
Posts: 1013
Joined: 23 Dec 2004 01:25
Location: Slovenia - vojvodina Å tajerska

Pfalz A-II in Ottoman service

Post by TISO » 26 Nov 2009 20:13

Pfalz A-I in turkish service

Just got a 1/72 scale model of the thingie and it also has Imperial Turkish army in 1916 (AZ models). Sadly no information on units pilots....

Could someone enlighten me where and when this planes served in the Ottoman army?
Last edited by TISO on 29 Nov 2009 00:48, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Bill Woerlee
Member
Posts: 487
Joined: 06 Dec 2006 04:52
Location: Canberra

Re: Pfalz A-I in Ottoman service

Post by Bill Woerlee » 26 Nov 2009 20:50

Tiso

Mate, regarding the Pfalz A-I and Palestine, to my knowledge, no such aircraft was delivered to the Turkish air force.

There was a PFALZ E.I of which only one was delivered 1 April 1916 and was used by Vortrop Pasha, who named the aircraft "Kathe".

Then there was the PFALZ A.II - Parasol. They all arrived on 3 October 1916 and were delivered to 3ncü Tayyare Bölük.

P6 - Rendered unserviceable, October 1916.
P7 - Last flight on 2 March 1917
F8 - Rendered unserviceable, February 1917.
P9 - Rendered unserviceable, February 1917.
P10 - Rendered unserviceable, November 1916.

You can read the details of the Turkish air force in Palestine at:

The Ottoman Air Force in the Sinai and Palestine

http://alh-research.tripod.com/Light_Ho ... id=1111256

Hopefully this will help you along with your research.

Cheers

Bill

domster
Member
Posts: 61
Joined: 02 Nov 2006 11:21
Location: UK

Re: Pfalz A-I in Ottoman service

Post by domster » 27 Nov 2009 11:04

Hi Tiso

Try this article
http://www.ole-nikolajsen.com/TURKISH%2 ... /3tybl.htm

The same guy has a very useful publication on CD which includes a list of pilots in the unit.

Cheers
Dominic

User avatar
TISO
Member
Posts: 1013
Joined: 23 Dec 2004 01:25
Location: Slovenia - vojvodina Å tajerska

Re: Pfalz A-I in Ottoman service

Post by TISO » 28 Nov 2009 16:39

Thank you kindley gentelmen.
At this time any info on this rather obscure topic of airwar in the desert (at least in the aviation world) is welcome. As i see it looking at what ottoman army was supplied by germany i will have to get me much more kits :D

So regarding these A-II's how were this aircraft individually marked (serial numbers, tactical numbers etc.)?

Kit producer only gave national markings for the planes (black squares with white borders). The only photo i could find doesn?t have any markings save national ensignia but it is also not dated and placed (taken where & when?)

BTW
AZ model supplies all parts for Morane-Saulnier L and Pfalz A-I and A-II in the box (2 engines, 2 rudders and vertical stabilisers).

domster
Member
Posts: 61
Joined: 02 Nov 2006 11:21
Location: UK

Re: Pfalz A-II in Ottoman service

Post by domster » 10 Dec 2009 12:19

Hi Tiso

The Turks renumbered their aircraft and this number was usually painted in the white border of the national marking on the side of the fuselage. In this photo of a Albatros C.III you can just see the AK60 number at the top of the white border.

Also attached is a 1:72 resin Rumpler C.I I did a few years ago-based at Ma'an in southern Jordan the background photo is one I took in Wadi Rumm when i worked there. Unfortunately a picture fell on it and I had to bin it. Next time I am going for a 1:48 scale in a grey colour scheme as I have a recce report from Ma'an describing this colour rather than the clear dope on this model.

Also try this website which has colour profiles:
http://www.tayyareci.com/digerucaklar/turkiye/ww1.asp

All the best
Dominic
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
TISO
Member
Posts: 1013
Joined: 23 Dec 2004 01:25
Location: Slovenia - vojvodina Å tajerska

Re: Pfalz A-II in Ottoman service

Post by TISO » 10 Dec 2009 23:26

Domster thank you for the excellent link.
Unfortunatly it raises another question:
Were those Pfaltz A-II's serving in 3NCÜ TAYYARE BÖLÜK (THE 3RD AIRCRAFT COMPANY) of the Ottoman Army single or double seat machines?

James A Pratt III
Member
Posts: 796
Joined: 30 Apr 2006 00:08
Location: Texas

Re: Pfalz A-II in Ottoman service

Post by James A Pratt III » 16 Jun 2010 22:43

As far as can tell all Pfalz A-I and II aircraft were 2seaters. Also the Turks I believe recieved 10 of them P1 to 10 you mentioned the fates of P6 to 10 do you have any information on the fates of the others?

User avatar
Peter H
Member
Posts: 28628
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 13:18
Location: Australia

Re: Pfalz A-II in Ottoman service

Post by Peter H » 18 Jun 2010 12:58

Of interest.On ebay ages ago,seller unknown.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

domster
Member
Posts: 61
Joined: 02 Nov 2006 11:21
Location: UK

Re: Pfalz A-II in Ottoman service

Post by domster » 21 Jun 2010 12:31

James A Pratt III wrote:As far as can tell all Pfalz A-I and II aircraft were 2seaters. Also the Turks I believe recieved 10 of them P1 to 10 you mentioned the fates of P6 to 10 do you have any information on the fates of the others?
Hi James

P.1-P.4 were given to the 2 TAYYARE BÖLÜK and were deployed in Iraq and were deployed to great effect against the British at Kut-el-Amara. P.1 crashed on its test flight possibly at Damascus, P2.-P.4 all became unservicable by May 1916. I have no records of P.5.

Cheers
Dominic

James A Pratt III
Member
Posts: 796
Joined: 30 Apr 2006 00:08
Location: Texas

Re: Pfalz A-II in Ottoman service

Post by James A Pratt III » 28 Jun 2010 01:12

Thanks, I wonder how many bombing raids on Kut these aircraft flew.

User avatar
TISO
Member
Posts: 1013
Joined: 23 Dec 2004 01:25
Location: Slovenia - vojvodina Å tajerska

Re: Pfalz A-II in Ottoman service

Post by TISO » 21 Nov 2010 01:48

Stil doing the search for photos of these planes (as well as Fokker E-III and Letov Š-16T) i found pic of this obviously non operational one (one tire missing).
I have a question regarding the markings on the wing (crescent moon and star). No square marking in sight black or red.
Is this crescent moon & star some kind of special ww1 marking after ww1 marking?
taken from Turkish air force site (BTW some great HD pic's here):
http://www.hvkk.tsk.tr/PageSub/CokluOrt ... ?pageID=13
entire pic
http://www.hvkk.tsk.tr/PageSub/CokluOrt ... %20A-2.jpgImage

Tosun Saral
Member
Posts: 4029
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 19:32
Location: Ankara/Turkey

Re: Pfalz A-II in Ottoman service

Post by Tosun Saral » 21 Nov 2010 15:15

The name of the company in right Turkish is "3ncü Tayyare Bölüğü" not boluk but bölüğü.
Tayyare; aircraft
Bölük : Company
Bölüğü: the company
In old Turkish company(Bölük) was written shorty as "K"

3ncü Bölük: 3rd Company
3ncü tayyare Bölüğü : The 3rd aircraft company
:D

User avatar
TISO
Member
Posts: 1013
Joined: 23 Dec 2004 01:25
Location: Slovenia - vojvodina Å tajerska

Re: Pfalz A-II in Ottoman service

Post by TISO » 22 Nov 2010 16:28

Tosun culd you perhaps explain the crescent moon & star marking on the wing of the Pfaltz (go to the link for the pic as posted here is cut in half).
The plane in the background does have a square insignia (look closely between the men on the pic) either black or red (not visible) but on the Pfaltz only the moon&star insignia is visible. Considerig the fabric which was translucent there is a possibility that it was painted on the top of the wing.

ole nikolajsen
Member
Posts: 18
Joined: 11 Sep 2010 18:20

Re: Pfalz A-II in Ottoman service

Post by ole nikolajsen » 15 Dec 2010 21:59

enclosed is a picture of a Pfalz A II wrecked in Medina. It is interesting to see that square markings has been applied even on the tailplane.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Tosun Saral
Member
Posts: 4029
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 19:32
Location: Ankara/Turkey

Re: Pfalz A-II in Ottoman service

Post by Tosun Saral » 16 Dec 2010 21:23

I am not an expert but we have our crescent and star on every govenmental issue since the beginning of 19th Centuary. EWd have crescent and star on the plane tails. we have a red square in the mids of more bigger white square on the body of the plane. We have on the windows of thepassenger trains crescent and star still today. :D
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Return to “The end of the Ottoman Empire 1908-1923”