Hitler Studied This Book

Discussions on books and other reference material on the WW1, Inter-War or WW2 as well as the authors. Hosted by Andy H.
Forum rules
You can support AHF when buying books etc from Amazon, Amazon.co.uk and Amazon.de by using these links.
It costs you nothing extra but it helps keep the forum up and running.
J. Duncan
Member
Posts: 3348
Joined: 02 Aug 2008 10:22

Hitler Studied This Book

Post by J. Duncan » 12 Dec 2009 12:30

Found this book on amazon.com. Timothy Ryback, in his book "Hitler's Private Library", mentions a book written in 1923 by a man named Ernst Schertel. He found the book in the Brown University collection of books taken from the personal library of Adolf Hitler. Schertel had sent a copy of his book to Hitler, who apparently read it with great interest. The original copy has Hitler's own notations of study written in his hand - 66 to be exact. Schertel's book is about "magic" and it's necessary relation to the "dark forces". Hitler's notations are fascinating. In one section he writes "one mustn't shrink from evil in order to create a new world" or something to that effect. In another he writes "God began with the devil".
The book is newly translated and published including all of Hitler's 66 personal notations. Some are now saying as a result of the evidence of this book that it implies that Hitler dabbled in Satanism. I find the subject of Hitler's reading rather interesting because the books we read do have an influence on our thinking.

http://www.amazon.com/Magic-History-Pra ... 489&sr=1-1

User avatar
phylo_roadking
Member
Posts: 17489
Joined: 30 Apr 2006 23:31
Location: Belfast

Re: Hitler Studied This Book

Post by phylo_roadking » 12 Dec 2009 20:46

Oh no.....

J - it's a crock. A guy appeared on here about six months ago trying to punt it out direct - he's a selfpublisher....and it was visibly a fake. He made some REALLY basic mistakes, AND was stupid enough to post up one REALLY damaging bit of evidence here.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO CORROBORATION AT ALL that this book was ever owned by Hitler, or that the annotations were by him.

Look at the reviews....
The author (J.H. Kelley) did a wonderful job of bringing this rare book annotated by Adolf Hitler to print...
J.H. Kelly has made a career in the last couple of years of privately self-RE-publishing a couple of old books on which the copyright has run out in the U.S. :wink: So there's nothing legally stopping him. He joined here, posted a thread trying to punt out this fake, and when called on his visible errors, got VERY bolshy about being caught out....and was banned.

If you want to look for yourself...http://www.cotum.com/ But I do NOT recommend opting for the "free preview"....for if you Google "Community Of The Universal Mind" or "J H Kelley", you'll find Kelley also makes his money by doing the one thing he specifically says he will NOT do - he sells your email addy on to an Internet advertising company, and you get bombarded with unwanted advertising spam! 8O

J. Duncan
Member
Posts: 3348
Joined: 02 Aug 2008 10:22

Re: Hitler Studied This Book

Post by J. Duncan » 12 Dec 2009 23:36

what about Timothy Ryback (a reputable historian)? He discusses this book (the book by Schertel) at length and says that Hitler did indeed read it and his handwritten notes are in it. Ryback studied the book in the Brown University collection and the book has been authenticated to have been owned, read, and written in the margins by Hitler.. Is HE lying? Am I to understand that both men are full of B.S. or is one just hawking a bogus book? I appreciate the warning about J H Kelley but want to know if you think Ryback is missing something?

User avatar
phylo_roadking
Member
Posts: 17489
Joined: 30 Apr 2006 23:31
Location: Belfast

Re: Hitler Studied This Book

Post by phylo_roadking » 13 Dec 2009 00:07

but want to know if you think Ryback is missing something?
... you mean apart from the fact that there's nothing confirming that THIS book (available to us in REPRODUCTION, remember :wink: ) is the one HITLER actually had?

Apart from the "ex Libris" plate inside, declaiming that it's the property of AH....a pic of THIS is what Kelley posted up here - except it was a "negative mirror image of one readily available on the Internet! The thread has been deleted ( as junk)but I posted up the original available-off-the-Internet copy....down to the same reproduction flaws and age marks as Kelly had simply photoshopped into negative and claimed was an original "exlibris" plate???

What I mean is - Kelley posted up something like THIS -
Image
....and that is what you get when you sign up for the "sample" pages...

....whereas a real AH "ex libris" plate looks something like THIS -
Image

Spot the rather obvious difference??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

As for the Ryback claim - strangely enough...when Kelley first appeared on here there was NO mention of Ryback AT ALL :wink:

From Amazon - note the highlighted section -
In May of 2003, Timothy Ryback, the author of "Hitler's Private Library: The Books That Shaped His Life" had an article published in The Atlantic Monthly. In the article he detailed several of the books held in a portion of Hitler's library at Brown University. Mr. Ryback also mentioned some of the passages Hitler marked in these books. One particular passage was worthy of attention: "He who does not carry demonic seeds within him will never give birth to a new world." That passage appeared in the book "Magic: History / Theory / Practice", written by Dr. Ernst Schertel. Schertel was a researcher of alternative sexual practices, nudism, and the occult. After finishing his book Magic in 1923 he sent a dedicated copy to Adolf Hitler. Now, for the first time ever, "Magic: History/Theory/Practice" has been translated into English, with all sixty-six Hitler annotations intact.
So it's an article we don't miraculously have access to - NOT Ryback's book :wink: NOR is there any paper trail confirming that what WE are being sold IS a reproduction of the copy that Ryback saw :wink: I wonder if Mr. Ryback knows his name is being taken in vain??? :P

J. Duncan
Member
Posts: 3348
Joined: 02 Aug 2008 10:22

Re: Hitler Studied This Book

Post by J. Duncan » 13 Dec 2009 03:27

Thanks Phylo! I have a better understanding now of what you were driving at in your previous post.

J. Duncan
Member
Posts: 3348
Joined: 02 Aug 2008 10:22

Re: Hitler Studied This Book

Post by J. Duncan » 18 Dec 2009 03:25

P T Barnum said "There's a sucker born every minute"..I seem to be one of them! I got a copy of this book for 18.00 and have received it. It's total BS! The guy that got this together makes the claim that it's the book that Hitler received in 1923 by Ernst Schertel, a reprint and translation of the book which is in the Brown U. stacks. He advertises the book as that which also contains "Hitler's 66 annotated passages" when in reality it is only 66 lines or dashes beside the passages written by Ernst Schertel!! This book is going back to amazon.com.!!

User avatar
phylo_roadking
Member
Posts: 17489
Joined: 30 Apr 2006 23:31
Location: Belfast

Re: Hitler Studied This Book

Post by phylo_roadking » 18 Dec 2009 17:36

Well, it could have been worse - if you'd bought it direct from Kelley it would have stung you an ADDITIONAL $10, with probably no chance of refund... :wink:

J. Duncan
Member
Posts: 3348
Joined: 02 Aug 2008 10:22

Re: Hitler Studied This Book

Post by J. Duncan » 18 Dec 2009 22:00

Phylo ,
Unfortunately, I had already ordered the book before I read your critique and analysis. Your hunch was correct. The book by Schertel is the genuine article but like you said there is no proof Hitler ever read this book! "Annotated" means "notes in the margins", not "/" 's which could have been made by anyone. Ryback must have been full of beans too.

User avatar
phylo_roadking
Member
Posts: 17489
Joined: 30 Apr 2006 23:31
Location: Belfast

Re: Hitler Studied This Book

Post by phylo_roadking » 18 Dec 2009 22:35

It's very possible Kelley never expected anyone to actually track down Ryback's article...EXCEPT US! :lol:

Here it is....http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200305/ryback

And it puts the Amazon quote PROPERLY IN CONTEXT... :wink:
Hitler's copy of Magic bears a handwritten dedication from Schertel, scrawled on the title page in pencil. A 170-page softcover in large format, the book has been thoroughly read, and its margins scored repeatedly. I found a particularly thick pencil line beside the passage "He who does not carry demonic seeds within him will never give birth to a new world."
So absolutely NO proof that it was HITLER who drew the lines! :lol: :lol: :lol: in the last seventy years or so...

But VERY interesting is, as I said, the CONTEXT of that paragraph; here's the one immediately preceeding it!
One of the most heavily marked books is Magic: History, Theory and Practice (1923), by Ernst Schertel. When I typed the author's name into one Internet search engine, I scored eight hits, including sites on Satanism, eroticism, sadomasochism, and flagellation. When I typed his name into Google, I scored twenty-six hits, including sites on parapsychology, astrology, and diverse sexual practices. According to a Web site for Germany's sadomasochistic community, Schertel wrote numerous books on flagellation and eroticism, and was "a central figure" in the German nudist movement of the 1920s and 1930s.
IF we accept even the slightest possiblity that Hitler marked those passages....it perhaps has MORE relevance to AH's now well-known....un...sado-masochistic sexual tendencies! :lol: :P than ANY interest in magic and demonology.

IF theoretically we accept JUST FOR THE SAKE OF DISCUSSION that AH did that underlining...
He who does not carry demonic seeds within him will never give birth to a new world
...would actually indicate MORE that AH was more than aware of his own weaknesses and sexual proclivities! :lol: :lol: :lol:

But against all THIS - we HAVE to set something ELSE in that article, something that comes way before the reference to Schertel. Far from Kelley's ridiculous assertions abaout Hitler and black magic and demonology...
I also found, however, a Hitler I had not anticipated: a man with a sustained interest in spirituality. Among the piles of Nazi tripe (much of it printed on high-acid paper that is rapidly deteriorating) are more than 130 books on religious and spiritual subjects, ranging from Occidental occultism to Eastern mysticism to the teachings of Jesus Christ—books with titles such as Sunday Meditations; On Prayer; A Primer for Religious Questions, Large and Small; Large Truths About Mankind, the World and God. Also included were a German translation of E. Stanley Jones's 1931 best seller, The Christ of the Mount; and a 500-page work on the life and teachings of Jesus, published in 1935 under the title The Son: The Evangelical Sources and Pronouncements of Jesus of Nazareth in Their Original Form and With the Jewish Influences. Some volumes date from the early 1920s, when Hitler was an obscure rabble-rouser on the fringe of Munich political life; others from his last years, when he dominated Europe.

One leather-bound tome—with WORTE CHRISTI, or "Words of Christ," embossed in gold on the cover—was well worn, the silky, supple leather peeling upward in gentle curls along the edges. Human hands had obviously spent a lot of time with this book. The inside cover bore a dedication: "To our beloved Führer with gratitude and profound respect, Clara von Behl, born von Jansen von den Osten. Christmas 1935."

Worte Christi was so fragile that when the attendant brought it to me, he placed it on a red-velvet pad in a wooden reading stand, a beautifully finished oak contraption with two supports that could be adjusted with small brass pegs to fit the dimensions of the book. No more than a foot wide and eighteen inches long, the stand had a sacred air, as if it belonged on an altar.

I reviewed the table of contents—"Belief and Prayer," "God and the Kingdom of God," "Priests and Their Religious Practices," "The World and Its People"—and skimmed the introduction; then I scanned the book for marginalia that might suggest a close study of the text. A white-silk bookmark, preserved in its original perfection between pages 22 and 23 (only the portion exposed to the air had deteriorated), lay across a description of the Last Supper as related by Saint John. A series of pages that followed contained only a single aphorism each: "Believe in God" (page 31), "Have no fear, just believe" (page 52), "If you believe, anything is possible" (page 53), and so on, all the way to page 95, which offers the solemn wisdom "Many are called but few are chosen."

On page 241 appears the passage "You should love God, your Lord, with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your spirit: this is the foremost and greatest commandment. Another is equally important: Love your neighbor as you would love yourself." Beside this passage is one brief penciled line, the only mark in the entire book.

Given Hitler's legendary disdain for organized religion in general and Christianity in particular, I didn't expect him to have devoted much time to the teachings of Christ, let alone to have marked this quintessential Christian virtue. Had this in fact been made by the pencil of Hitler's younger sister, Paula, who occasionally visited her brother at the Berghof and remained a devout Catholic until her dying day? Might some other Berghof guest have responded to this holy Scripture?
8O 8O 8O

I find THAT more interesting than the brief reference to Schertel....and Kelley's wilful and intentional misattribution of Ryback's article.

User avatar
phylo_roadking
Member
Posts: 17489
Joined: 30 Apr 2006 23:31
Location: Belfast

Re: Hitler Studied This Book

Post by phylo_roadking » 18 Dec 2009 22:48

But the moral of the tale is...

....not ONLY is there absolutely no proof that Hitler ever made the marks in the book..

...by selective misquotation, Kelley gets you to pay $17.99 for something that is NOT what he says it is. And nor does Ryback either... :wink:

And looking back at http://www.cotum.com/...

You get TWELVE of the supposed 66 Hitler-attributed underlinings' details FOR FREE! :lol: So your &17.99 only got you 54 supposed references, not 66!

User avatar
phylo_roadking
Member
Posts: 17489
Joined: 30 Apr 2006 23:31
Location: Belfast

Re: Hitler Studied This Book

Post by phylo_roadking » 18 Dec 2009 23:03

Interestingly - ELEVEN of the TWELVE underlined passages are supplied at http://www.cotum.com/...COMPLETE.

Only ONE isn't complete...THIS one -
"Satan is the beginning..."
J., can you check your copy and maybe post up the COMPLETE "Satan" reference? Given the RELIGIOUS role of Satan/the Devil in the Bible, I'm just wondering if....like Ryback found in the Brown Collection....

...that underlined reference turns out - when complete - to be more about GOD than it is about Satan... :wink:

User avatar
phylo_roadking
Member
Posts: 17489
Joined: 30 Apr 2006 23:31
Location: Belfast

Re: Hitler Studied This Book

Post by phylo_roadking » 18 Dec 2009 23:09

There's one MORE thing I've just noticed at http://www.cotum.com/....this passage...
It also contains illustrations of Hitler's bookplate
To ME - when you click on the above link and read it in context - THAT reads as if the Hitler's bookplate example is a freebie EXTRA....I.E. it WASN'T in the "original" in the Brown Collection!

8O 8O 8O

So let's check Ryback's article...
One of the most heavily marked books is Magic: History, Theory and Practice (1923), by Ernst Schertel. When I typed the author's name into one Internet search engine, I scored eight hits, including sites on Satanism, eroticism, sadomasochism, and flagellation. When I typed his name into Google, I scored twenty-six hits, including sites on parapsychology, astrology, and diverse sexual practices. According to a Web site for Germany's sadomasochistic community, Schertel wrote numerous books on flagellation and eroticism, and was "a central figure" in the German nudist movement of the 1920s and 1930s.

Hitler's copy of Magic bears a handwritten dedication from Schertel, scrawled on the title page in pencil. A 170-page softcover in large format, the book has been thoroughly read, and its margins scored repeatedly. I found a particularly thick pencil line beside the passage "He who does not carry demonic seeds within him will never give birth to a new world."
And that is ALL the article says about the book! NO MENTION OF AN ADOLF HITLER "EX LIBRIS" BOOKPLATE

:wink:

J. Duncan
Member
Posts: 3348
Joined: 02 Aug 2008 10:22

Re: Hitler Studied This Book

Post by J. Duncan » 19 Dec 2009 11:16

Pylo
Thanks for your insightful "break down" of the Kelley-Ryback mess! I missed a lot in there and my "excitement" of discovering a Hitler "find" led me to fall into the trap!! I should have said to myself "wait a minute...let's examine this more carefully"! I will probably keep the book as a "memorial" to the folly of not looking at the evidence with a more critical eye. I still plan to read it out of curiousity and will post more here if i find anything noteworthy.
I remember the Ryback article very well and the words about H. S. Chamberlain's "Worte Christi". A friend of mine, Wido Sparling (a Dutch free-thinking liberal, def. not a Nazi, but who likes HSC's writings - his favorite author is John Updike!) owns an entire website devoted to the works of HSC and he alerted my attention to the article. Later, I purchased Ryback's book "Hitler's Private Library". I will have to go back to that book and read his words about Schertel more carefully just to see how much I didn't understand what Ryback actually said.
As an aside, I do not think Hitler took Chamberlain very seriously either. In Mein Kampf, he gives a slight nod to him but in his "Table Talk" he says Chamberlain was wrong in his assessment of Christianity. I used to "swear by" the "Table Talk" as being the definitive insight into Hitler's mind, but it's been brought to my attention that even these snippets of Hitler dialogue were censored or even edited by the anti-Christian Martin Bormann. I will have to look on this forum for the answers to this controversy. This would be a good thread topic in any case....maybe you could start it if you know anything about it?
I will try to find the quote "Satan is the beginning" but I do not think it's there...I think Kelley misread this and that the actual quote is "In the beginning God created Satan" (I have a vague feeling that Ryback uses the real quote in his book - I will have to check it.)
Anyway, thanks again for making things clear to me. Damn, I missed a lot!! Duncan.

cotumdvd
Member
Posts: 5
Joined: 18 Jan 2010 08:07

Re: Hitler Studied This Book

Post by cotumdvd » 18 Jan 2010 08:43

phylo_roadking seems to enjoy tearing down the work of others.

The book is legitimate.

Let's examine the facts.

"J - it's a crock. A guy appeared on here about six months ago trying to punt it out direct - he's a selfpublisher....and it was visibly a fake. He made some REALLY basic mistakes, AND was stupid enough to post up one REALLY damaging bit of evidence here.

There is ABSOLUTELY NO CORROBORATION AT ALL that this book was ever owned by Hitler, or that the annotations were by him."

To phylo, "ABSOLUTELY NO COOROBORATION AT ALL" means that Brown University keeps this in a special section along with the other Hitler-owned books, and Ryback verified it and looked at it himself.

As for the "REALLY basic mistakes," what are they? The bookplate was printed wrong at the library, off the microfilm machine. I didn't double-check this, so early editions had a negative of the original bookplate. That is a basic mistake, but it wasn't made while trying to deceive anyone. It was made because I am unfamiliar with printing off microfilm and failed to double-check the image.

"But I do NOT recommend opting for the "free preview"....for if you Google "Community Of The Universal Mind" or "J H Kelley", you'll find Kelley also makes his money by doing the one thing he specifically says he will NOT do - he sells your email addy on to an Internet advertising company, and you get bombarded with unwanted advertising spam!"

This is slander. I have never sold a single email address that I've collected. I offer a range of products, and may promote the products of others if I see fit, as is my right... but I've never sold any emails. It is sad that people on here believe you while you make accusations like this without any evidence whatsoever.

"what about Timothy Ryback (a reputable historian)? He discusses this book (the book by Schertel) at length and says that Hitler did indeed read it and his handwritten notes are in it."

Ryback examined the copy. Please cite where Ryback said there were handwritten notes in Hitler's copy of MAGIC. There were highlights, and that was it.

"P T Barnum said "There's a sucker born every minute"..I seem to be one of them! I got a copy of this book for 18.00 and have received it. It's total BS! The guy that got this together makes the claim that it's the book that Hitler received in 1923 by Ernst Schertel, a reprint and translation of the book which is in the Brown U. stacks. He advertises the book as that which also contains "Hitler's 66 annotated passages" when in reality it is only 66 lines or dashes beside the passages written by Ernst Schertel!! This book is going back to amazon.com.!!"

It's not a claim, it is reality. It contains all the passages that were annotated. Please don't blame me if you're like this guy:

"Annotated" means "notes in the margins", not "/" 's which could have been made by anyone. Ryback must have been full of beans too."

and cannot understand the definition of "annotate." Let's look it up:

annotate
One entry found.

Main Entry: an·no·tate
Pronunciation: \ˈa-nə-ˌtāt\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): an·no·tat·ed; an·no·tat·ing
Etymology: Latin annotatus, past participle of annotare, from ad- + notare to mark — more at note
From: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/annotate

"Marking" or "highlighting" can be described as annotations.

"And that is ALL the article says about the book! NO MENTION OF AN ADOLF HITLER "EX LIBRIS" BOOKPLATE"

I see. So the article doesn't mention it - that means it can't exist - even if I printed it straight off the microfilm that Brown sent me and scanned it. Thanks for that wonderful lesson in logic.

Now, here is a scan of the letter from Brown University:
http://cotum.com/brown1.jpg

And a scan of the top of the microfilm box that they sent me:
http://cotum.com/brown2.jpg

I do not take being called a fake or a con artist lightly. If anyone would like to speak with me live, just send me a PM and I'll give you my phone number. You may ask me anything you like regarding this project.

As for those of you who believe phylo you may want to be a bit more skeptical in the future.

JHK

User avatar
phylo_roadking
Member
Posts: 17489
Joined: 30 Apr 2006 23:31
Location: Belfast

Re: Hitler Studied This Book

Post by phylo_roadking » 18 Jan 2010 17:01

Now, here is a scan of the letter from Brown University:
http://cotum.com/brown1.jpg

And a scan of the top of the microfilm box that they sent me:
http://cotum.com/brown2.jpg
....I too can type a letter or a label containing publically-acessible addressing information and backdate it. Funny how the print in your scan looks so aged and patchy...yet the folds are crisp and new and visibly has only ever been folded ONCE.

NOR has it been kept folded for the last four years...
As for the "REALLY basic mistakes," what are they? The bookplate was printed wrong at the library, off the microfilm machine. I didn't double-check this, so early editions had a negative of the original bookplate. That is a basic mistake, but it wasn't made while trying to deceive anyone. It was made because I am unfamiliar with printing off microfilm and failed to double-check the image
Really? Unfamiliar? Strange, that, as its by no means the first out of print and copyright-expired book you've sold, is it?...
I see. So the article doesn't mention it - that means it can't exist -
I can't see Timothy Ryback making THAT level of error or ommission...
even if I printed it straight off the microfilm that Brown sent me and scanned it. Thanks for that wonderful lesson in logic.
Ah! So we have to accept it as true because YOU say it is. Not how it works here.

Return to “Books & other Reference Material”