3cm Flak 103/38

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Sturm78
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3cm Flak 103/38

Post by Sturm78 » 15 Dec 2009 12:34

Hi all,

I am looking for information and more pictures about 3cm Flak 103/38 AA gun.

According to Ian Hogg: "This was a hastily arranged marriage between the 3cm MK 103, a Rheinmetall -Borsig design of aircraft cannon, and a modified 2cm Flak 38 mounting. It was developed in mid-1944..... Rheinmetall-Borsig were given a contract to produce 2000 guns and Gustloffwerke of Suhl were to produce 1000, all of which were to be completed by March 1945 (although it is doubtful if anything near this number were actually built). A four-barrelled version, the 3cm Flakvierling 103/38, was also produced in limited numbers. In addition toi the Rheinmetall contract, two other companies were also engaged in developing an AA version of the MK103; Mauser-Werke produced a model identical to that of Rheinmetall and Brunserwerke AG produced a longer-barrelled version,......
The equipment was not conspicuously successful. The 3cm gun was a much more powerful weapon than older 2cm guns and the firing stress set up vibrations in the mounting that caused damaged, and which also gave the layer difficulty in aiming. Variuos expedients were applied to cure the trouble ; a muzzle break helped to reduce the recoil force , the carriage was strengheted and the sight was modified ..... These helped, but it remained a fault-prone weapon."

Is this information correct? Was this gun produced in series in any important amount or just prototypes were produced?
I've never seen any pictures of this gun in action.
I think to add another caliber to the german antiaircraft artillery would have only complicated the logistics. Or perhaps the germans intended to replace with this weapon the 2cm Flak 38 and 3.7cm Flak 43
Any additional information and/or photos will be welcome.

These are the only pictures I've seen of this weapon:

Images from the Web. I do not remember the exact sources.

Thanks in advance. Regards Sturm78
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tom!
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Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by tom! » 15 Dec 2009 18:45

Hi.

There is a larger article on the german trials to modify aircraft MGs for groungd use and especially on the 3 cm Flak 103/38 in Waffen Revue issues 93 - 96. This includes detail pictures and descriptions of the gun but no additional pictures of the whole weapon.

Yours

tom! :wink:

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kstdk
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Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by kstdk » 15 Dec 2009 19:29

Hello

A couple of scanned drawings - cant remember from what book / magazine, sorry.

regards
Kurt
kstdk
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jopaerya
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Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by jopaerya » 15 Dec 2009 20:08

Hello All

The second photo from Sturm78 from the 103/38 was taken at Ostbau-Sagan ,the vierling was taken
of the lafette and was placed on top of a Pz. Kpfw. IV and was called Flakpanzer "Zerstörer 45" .
Only two prototypes were made of this Flakpanzer .

The Flakpanzer Kugelblitz used the the Flakzwillung 103/38 in a closed turret on a Pz.Kpfw. IV , from
this gun only 5 prototypes were build in end 1944/1945 .

Info = Deutsche Flak-Panzer bis 1945

Regards Jos

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Kalinor
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Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by Kalinor » 15 Dec 2009 23:09

ah i have heard of a flakpanzer, never seen one tho i always pictured it to look like the modern day gepard aa gun, but on a panzer hull, never heard nor seen the gun in question before this, but it looks like a nice piece of kit despite its short comings, i know there were other successful conversions from aircraft to ground mounts, perhaps this one just needed more work.
Jon from Lincolnshire

Wishes he lived in a country that has real bunkers

jopaerya
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Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by jopaerya » 16 Dec 2009 10:49

Hello

I did found a battery 3 x 3 cm Kieslin in Pas de Calais http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=118596

Regards Jos

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SES
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Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by SES » 17 Dec 2009 10:01

Hi,
Interesting discussion, very nice pictures, thanks for sharing.
bregds
SES

Sturm78
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Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by Sturm78 » 11 Feb 2010 13:16

Hi all,

A forum member has uploaded this interesting photo in the vehicles section. See http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 7&t=162702

The question is: 2cm Flak 38 or 3cm Flak 103-38 AA guns on trucks?? :?
The muzzle brake seems that of 3cm Flak but it is difficult to ensure. If so would be the first picture I see of this gun in action!!

Regards Sturm78
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Cobrahistorian
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Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by Cobrahistorian » 21 Jun 2013 14:46

I've been hunting high and low to see if anyone knows how many Jaboschrecks still exist. Does anyone know?

Cobrahistorian
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Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by Cobrahistorian » 21 Jun 2013 15:17

Sturm78 wrote:Hi all,

A forum member has uploaded this interesting photo in the vehicles section. See http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 7&t=162702

The question is: 2cm Flak 38 or 3cm Flak 103-38 AA guns on trucks?? :?
The muzzle brake seems that of 3cm Flak but it is difficult to ensure. If so would be the first picture I see of this gun in action!!

Regards Sturm78
Not sure about the gun in the foreground, but the background is a 103/38. You can clearly see the barrel support tube. Any idea where this was taken?

Just for giggles, here's my gun as it appeared in 1946. We'll be restoring it shortly.

Jon
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Cobrahistorian
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Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by Cobrahistorian » 23 Jun 2013 15:02

Image

So, does anyone know how many are left?

jopaerya
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Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by jopaerya » 23 Jun 2013 16:58

Hello Jon

Great to see this gun or parts of it survived , your black and white picture looks to be a allied one but where ??

Regards Jos

Cobrahistorian
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Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by Cobrahistorian » 23 Jun 2013 17:04

Jos,

The black and white photo is the same gun I have. It was taken at Aberdeen in 1946. In 1990 for some reason the gun was removed from the chassis and transferred to the National Air & Space Museum. The chassis and mount remained at Aberdeen until last year when it was transferred to me at the US Army Air Defense Artillery Museum. I've been trying to track down the gun since then and just figured out the NASM connection. I'll be speaking to their armaments curator tomorrow and should be reuniting the gun with the chassis in the coming weeks.

The chassis is in good shape except for the sight mount, which someone bent on about a 120-degree angle. The good news though is we have a full restoration shop here and will be able to fix it.

jopaerya
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Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by jopaerya » 24 Jun 2013 15:51

Thanks Jon

You are dooing a great job :thumbsup:

Regards Jos

Cobrahistorian
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Re: 3cm Flak 103/38

Post by Cobrahistorian » 25 Jun 2013 21:27

Confirmed that the gun at NASM is the Jaboschreck gun that belongs with our mount. Working the transfer details now.

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