Is it a German design

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LiH
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Is it a German design

Post by LiH » 02 Jun 2010 14:29

This airplane looks quite strange, maybe is a captured one? I hope that can find some information here,Thanks.
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Ironmachine
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Re: Is it a German design

Post by Ironmachine » 03 Jun 2010 16:28

IIRC, this is supposedly the Heinkel He-279 Spirale. Please note that I have stated "supposedly". I have never found any reliable, well-sourced information about this plane, so it is very possible that it is just a fake...

Mikko H.
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Re: Is it a German design

Post by Mikko H. » 04 Jun 2010 07:26

IIRC this has been discussed here before, and it was determined to be an Italian prototype that was taken over by Germans.

MadderCat
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Re: Is it a German design

Post by MadderCat » 04 Jun 2010 10:20

according to an 5 year old discussion (and still going on) on the LEMB
it seems to be manufactured by Heinkel and seems to be an wehrmacht hoax to allied intelligence
which seems to be from my point of view true


regards


Stefan

LiH
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Re: Is it a German design

Post by LiH » 04 Jun 2010 12:32

Mikko H. wrote:IIRC this has been discussed here before, and it was determined to be an Italian prototype that was taken over by Germans.
I hope that I can find the disscussion here...
Thanks for all replies.

stellung
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Re: Is it a German design

Post by stellung » 05 Jun 2010 03:40

It would only be appropriate to state that this is an unknown design. After years of studying German decoy aircraft, I can only say that I have never seen anything as elaborate as this. If it is for propaganda purposes, then the work appears justified.

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Grzesio
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Re: Is it a German design

Post by Grzesio » 06 Jun 2010 11:40

this is supposedly the Heinkel He-279 Spirale.
As far as I remember, it was stated with great self-confidence by ONE guy (on the LEMB for example); he was asked to proof his statement in any way - and he did not. There's even no slightest clue, the He 279 project ever existed?

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Grzesio

Mimbrogno
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Re: Is it a German design

Post by Mimbrogno » 07 Jul 2010 19:50

This thing really intrigues me. I'm rather certain that these photos aren't manipulated. Everything about them to me is just too uniform - the grain & texture, shadow forms & lines - there's nothing out of place, no distortions. That leads me to the conclusion that this thing, what ever it is, was built.

I have no idea what engine it had, but it was either two V's stacked together or one composite block, as indicated by the exhaust manifolds. What gets me though, are the ducts cut in ahead and behind each exhaust manifold.

Notice the other odd features - the apperant lack of radiators, the details of the gull wing with flaps or airlerons on the outer sections, the guns mounted just inside the bend of the wings. Note the apperant absence of the wheel wells, which is a trick of perspective on the side view, as they would be on the inner section of the gull wing whos underside angles away from view in that photo.

There are other less visible details that can be made out as well; there're appereantly two cutouts in the very top of the fusalage at about the rear end of the wing, and two nearlly invisible short protrusions above the body just behind the cockpit. (one looks very much like a radio wire attachment.)

I'm quite convinced that this was something like a design study or a mockup, or perhaps a really well executed special project (for intellegence or propoganda or who knows what) that was built by somebody (I'm not guessing who) during the war. Given that it is painted and finished, complete with nose art, indicates it was probably a special project of some kind.

Going out on a limb now, if this aircraft is an espianoge tool, (perhaps in a means of discovering how much the allies might know about German aircraft development) it would be reasonible, even expected that it be given a project/pruduction number and designation, and that if HE-279 was a number used for the espeinage progect, this might be the HE-279.

Whether or not it is the HE-279 really isn't important to me though. I'd like the find out the truth of who built it and why. Who gave the authorization to build the thing?

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Grzesio
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Re: Is it a German design

Post by Grzesio » 11 Jul 2010 09:47

It was recently written on the LEMB (which is offline for some reason now), that according to Mr. Volker Koos the thing is a mock-up of a fake aircraft (intended to deceive Allied intelligence) built from the He 280 V7 airframe.

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Grzesio

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Ironmachine
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Re: Is it a German design

Post by Ironmachine » 11 Jul 2010 16:20

Prior to or after being used as a glider for aerodynamic research, which was the use later given to the V7 according to most sources I have read?
Last edited by Ironmachine on 11 Jul 2010 18:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Roddoss72
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Re: Is it a German design

Post by Roddoss72 » 11 Jul 2010 17:44

Just looked at the He-280 on Wiki, it appears to be a reskinned He-280, i see no reason that this is a very good fake aircraft.

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red devil
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Re: Is it a German design

Post by red devil » 11 Jul 2010 17:51

I agree, why go to such lengths to fool allies; they couldn't really have cared in reality!

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Roddoss72
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Re: Is it a German design

Post by Roddoss72 » 11 Jul 2010 17:57

red devil wrote:I agree, why go to such lengths to fool allies; they couldn't really have cared in reality!
That maybe true, but if you have enough mock-ups lying around it gives the impression that your strengths are better than what is in actuallity, and that it also may confuse the enemy.

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Grzesio
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Re: Is it a German design

Post by Grzesio » 11 Jul 2010 22:34

Ironmachine wrote:Prior to or after being used as a glider for aerodynamic research, which was the use later given to the V7 according to most sources I have read?
So here's a problem, as according to the He 280 booklet by Dressel/Griehl/Menke the He 280 V7 was still flying till early 1945? I don't see a period fur such a mock-up to be built?!

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Grzesio

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Ironmachine
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Re: Is it a German design

Post by Ironmachine » 12 Jul 2010 07:12

Well, IIRC the test flights of the "glider" V7 began in August 1944, so after the cancellation of the He-280 project (in March 1943, IIRC) there was a period of time during which V7 could have been used as such mock-up. But then, I wonder why it would have been used later for aerodynamic tests? Wasn't there anything else available?

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