Paul Egger 113 Panzerkills ?

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Hardigan
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Paul Egger 113 Panzerkills ?

Post by Hardigan » 19 Sep 2010 18:17

Hello all,

SS-Ostuf. Paul Egger of s.SS-PzAbt.502 claimed 113 Panzerkills , but how is it possible that Egger already had 79 Panzerkills after Normandy and earned the DKiG for it while SS-StOju Willi Fey had 73 Panzerkills (which is disputable and maybe even lower) and their former Battalion-Commander SS-Ostubaf. Hans Weiss has stated that Fey was his most successful Panzer-Commander at that time (source E.G. Krätschmer) ?

No question about it that Egger was the top Panzer-Commander Ace later on of this Battalion but I think it's more safe to say he had 100+ Panzerkills.

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kamehouse
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Re: Paul Egger 113 Panzerkills ?

Post by kamehouse » 19 Sep 2010 19:29

Hi Hardigan,
Wolfgang Schneider confirms that Paul Egger had his last kill (113th) on the 1st of May 1945 while escaping the Halbe pocket.He was also the commander of the last operational Tiger II of sSS-Panzer-Abt 502.
In the same book (Das Reich Tigers) there is also a very interesting document in the appendix:
the award recommendation of the German Cross in gold where there is a long depiction of the reason why Egger should receive the award.
For instance during the Normandy battles,he knocked out 8 tanks in Hill 112 and later another 18 at Chenedolle (although it is mentioned there were two vehicles at each time so the kills could be halved).
To come back to your question,I'd say if Schneider wrote that Egger had 113 kills,it's pretty safe to say this is correct.
I hope my post helped anyway.
Regards,
k

Michael Kenny
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Re: Paul Egger 113 Panzerkills ?

Post by Michael Kenny » 19 Sep 2010 19:59

kamehouse wrote:
For instance during the Normandy battles,he knocked out 8 tanks in Hill 112 and later another 18 at Chenedolle (although it is mentioned there were two vehicles at each time so the kills could be halved).
The really interesting bit is the incident at Chenodolle is almost certainly the one where Fey claimed he knocked out 14+ Shermans (Aug 7th?)
Fey mentions that another Tiger was near him but took no part in the action.
Either way the claim of 14 Shermans (whoever claimed them) is false.
I understand Fey and Egger had a very public falling out post-war and never missed any chance to do down the other.

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kamehouse
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Re: Paul Egger 113 Panzerkills ?

Post by kamehouse » 20 Sep 2010 09:55

Michael Kenny wrote:The really interesting bit is the incident at Chenodolle is almost certainly the one where Fey claimed he knocked out 14+ Shermans (Aug 7th?)
Fey mentions that another Tiger was near him but took no part in the action.
Either way the claim of 14 Shermans (whoever claimed them) is false.
I understand Fey and Egger had a very public falling out post-war and never missed any chance to do down the other.
Funnily enough,I checked last night while posting if Egger's name would appear in Fey's book and couldn't find anything related to Egger.
No wonder! :D

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Hardigan
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Re: Paul Egger 113 Panzerkills ?

Post by Hardigan » 20 Sep 2010 11:33

kamehouse wrote:To come back to your question,I'd say if Schneider wrote that Egger had 113 kills,it's pretty safe to say this is correct.
Hi K ,
The most objective person and the man who awarded his personnel and knew his best man was SS-Ostubaf. Weiss.The claims of Egger are too high.
Why exactly was the DKiG awarded to Egger ? Does somebody have the official proposal ? Thanks

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kamehouse
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Re: Paul Egger 113 Panzerkills ?

Post by kamehouse » 20 Sep 2010 16:19

It's a list of things actually,the document is separated in 11 sections,each describing actions involving Egger.

The first 4 sections are from his time as Gun commander of 37mm PaK and describe him fending off an attack of 5 soviet tanks in Jeljna,disabling an armored train(locomotive and one car)(10/09/41),providing anti-tank cover during the crossing of the Dessna resulting in 50 prisonners taken (11/09/41) and finally holding during four days in the bridgehead after the crossing(11-14/09/41).
The next 7 sections are from his time as Tank commander describing actions in Kharkov(16/02/43),Nowomoskowsk(20/02/43) and Pawlograd(21/02/43).
He was also taken prisonner(01/03/44) and managed to kill his two guards and make his way back to the German line(no location given).
The last 2 sections are about the battles of Hill 112 and Chenedolle I posted before.
The original document and its translation is available in page 399 to 401 in Schneider's book: Das Reich Tigers.
I don't have a scan sorry. :oops:

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Hardigan
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Re: Paul Egger 113 Panzerkills ?

Post by Hardigan » 21 Sep 2010 16:54

Thanks Kamehouse , I understand that there's no mentioning of his Panzerkills total (when he recieved the DKiG) in the document of his DKiG .

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kamehouse
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Re: Paul Egger 113 Panzerkills ?

Post by kamehouse » 21 Sep 2010 21:21

Hardigan wrote:Thanks Kamehouse , I understand that there's no mentioning of his Panzerkills total (when he recieved the DKiG) in the document of his DKiG .
None whatsoever I am afraid.
Only a few number of tank knocked out here and there.Certainly not enough to add up to 79 kills anyway.

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Hardigan
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Re: Paul Egger 113 Panzerkills ?

Post by Hardigan » 23 Sep 2010 10:52

Here also 2 extracts of Bernage and Krätschmer's book
Fey 1.JPG
Fey 2.JPG
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Hardigan
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Re: Paul Egger 113 Panzerkills ?

Post by Hardigan » 27 Jun 2013 20:08

According to this site Egger's Panzerkills were at least 79 by the end of the Normandy battles :
http://www.ritterkreuztraeger-1939-45.d ... r-Paul.htm

And according to this one Egger's Panzerkills were 68 by the end of Normandy :
http://www.panzer-archiv.de/content/personen.php?id=15


The 79 is probably an error. But it's still a strange situation , I know that Egger at that time was recommended for the Knight's Cross but instead of this he was awarded with the German Cross while Fey was at that time the most succesful Panzer Commander and received also the German Cross but unofficially what also is very strange. Does anyone know if Fey also was recommended for the Knight's Cross by the end of the Normandy battles ?

I don't believe that Egger scored 113 Panzerkills , at least not as a Panzer Commander alone , he also was a gunner when he started in the Panzerwaffe what could be the reason for such a late Knight's Cross (If he was awarded with it) . Another issue is the absence of a Panzer Badge with higher Grade , all Panzer Commanders (not Com./gunners or Wittmann of course) with 100+ kills were awarded with it.
And then there's of course his promotion from SS-Oscha. to SS-Ostuf. ! and that without an SS-Officer file and a crew-member and other colleagues who saw him only as SS-Oscha. without a Knight's Cross till the end of the war !

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Hardigan
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Re: Paul Egger 113 Panzerkills ?

Post by Hardigan » 26 Sep 2013 22:25

Egger indeed claimed 65 Panzerkills in 1943 in his own Bio so he claimed more Panzerkills than Fey while Fey was the most succesful Panzer Commander after Normandy so Egger's total is lower than 113.It's also very strange that he was not even awarded an Honor Roll Clasp or German Cross in 1943 if he would have had a total of 65 Panzerkills which was one of the highest totals by that time ! Every Panzer Commander in 1943 with 65 or more Panzerkills was awarded with an Honor Roll Clasp , German Cross or Knight's Cross !
Maybe the 113 is his total as gunner and PaK- and Panzer Commander but it's for sure not only as Panzer Commander.You only can place him in a list of Panzer Commanders like this : 100+ ?
Last edited by Hardigan on 26 Sep 2013 22:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Dwight Pruitt
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Re: Paul Egger 113 Panzerkills ?

Post by Dwight Pruitt » 26 Sep 2013 22:49

I hope I'm not treading over previously covered ground, but what was the criteria for confirming "kills?"

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