The hospital ship Moero

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asubris
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The hospital ship Moero

Post by asubris » 19 Nov 2010 16:35

My mother was a named passenger on the ship called the Moero which was sunk in the Baltic, 22nd September. I was wondering whether there are any photos of the ship. Also, probably unlikely, but if there is such a thing as a passenger list. Many thanks - Arvo

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Juha Tompuri
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Re: The hospital ship Moero

Post by Juha Tompuri » 19 Nov 2010 21:49


asubris
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Re: The hospital ship Moero

Post by asubris » 23 Nov 2010 02:04

Juha, No, I dont read Estonian. I would have to use the Google translator. This is amazing. I didnt think anyone would come up with something like this. Many thanks Arvo

asubris
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Re: The hospital ship Moero

Post by asubris » 23 Nov 2010 02:16

Juha, No, I dont read Estonian. I would have to use the Google translator. This is amazing. I didnt think anyone would come up with something like this. Many thanks Arvo.

I've found your photos and texts rather late. I will come back to them tomorrow evening. As my mother worked in Toompea on the kitchen staff she was able to leave by a minesweeper. My mother and her two sons had to cross several uboats in the harbour at Tallinn. In order to support my brothers memoirs. would there be pictures of uboats in the harbour and a typical minesweeper?

Amazing, again many thanks. I hope I can relocate these tomorrow evening. Best regards, Arvo

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Mischa
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Re: The hospital ship Moero

Post by Mischa » 24 Nov 2010 09:25

asubris wrote:My mother was a named passenger on the ship called the Moero which was sunk in the Baltic, 22nd September. I was wondering whether there are any photos of the ship. Also, probably unlikely, but if there is such a thing as a passenger list. Many thanks - Arvo
Hello asubris (Arvo)

in Jürg Meister`s book "„Der Seekrieg in den osteuropäischen Gewässern 1941-45” – J. F. Lehmanns Verlag München, 1958 I found that sentence. Sorry for the translation (google - translator).

23.09. had to withdraw from Reval and Paldiski (Baltic Port) It was the last convoy from Reval. A large convoy of 9,000 people on board, consisting of four steamers (EBERHARD ESSBERGER, PETER WESSEL, TANGA, ALETTE NOOT, a hospital ship OBERHAUSEN - this names after Heinz Schön) and the torpedo boat T 20, T 13, T 17 and T-19 "was attacked on the way, twice attacked by the Soviet. aviation.

Heinz Schön in "Flucht über die Ostsee 1944/45 im Bild", Motorbuch Verlag Stuttgart, 4. Auflage 1995 - wrote on page: 33 - Der Dampfer "Moero" 5.227 BRT, der am frühen Morgen den Hafen von Reval mit 700 Verwundeten und 573 Flüchtlingen verlassen hat, wird gegen 11.00 Uhr westlich von Windau von 17 sowjetischen Flugzeugen angegriffen. Das Schiff sinkt innerhalb 55 Minuten. Der Dampfer "Lappland" das S-Boot Begleitschiff "Hermann von Wissmann, das Torpedoboot "T 194" und ein Minensucher retten 618 Menschen, 655 Menschen, darunter etwa 600 Verwundete, finden beim Untergang des D. "Moero" den Tod.

and here the rough English translation:

The steamer "Moero" 5227 GRT, who left early in the morning the port of Tallinn with 700 wounded and 573 refugees, at 11.00 clock attacked west of Ventspils (Windau) of 17 Soviet aircraft. The ship sinks within 55 minutes. The steamer "Lapland " the S-boat escort ship" Hermann von Wissmann, the torpedo boat "M 194" and Minesweeper [/ u] save 618 people, 655 people, including about 600 wounded, found in the demise of D. " Moero "death.

Ragards
Mischa :milwink:

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Juha Tompuri
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Re: The hospital ship Moero

Post by Juha Tompuri » 27 Nov 2010 21:56

asubris wrote:My mother was a named passenger on the ship called the Moero which was sunk in the Baltic, 22nd September.
asubris wrote:As my mother worked in Toompea on the kitchen staff she was able to leave by a minesweeper. My mother and her two sons had to cross several uboats in the harbour at Tallinn. In order to support my brothers memoirs. would there be pictures of uboats in the harbour and a typical minesweeper?
I don't want to sound unpolite, but I it sounds a bit strange that at that point of the events there would still have been uboats at the harbour.
Also for having children aprox of the same age as you mention your brother then was - it might be difficult for that age to identify exact ship/vessel type.
Mischa wrote: the rough English translation:
The steamer "Moero" 5227 GRT, who left early in the morning the port of Tallinn with 700 wounded and 573 refugees, at 11.00 clock attacked west of Ventspils (Windau) of 17 Soviet aircraft.
I doubt Moero could have reached Ventspils at the time mentioned, if it would have started the journey the same morning.

Regards, Juha

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Re: The hospital ship Moero

Post by igorr » 28 Nov 2010 14:57

Now i have KTB of Hermannvon Wiessman, which joined to convoy MOERO, LAPPLAND, T.139. This happend in 21.50 21.9.44 in position "gelb 19". Unfortunately, i can't say, where is it. Between Baltischport and Reval. Air attack commenced 10.51 and in 11.02 MOERO received 2 torpedoes. As KTB say, ship has on board 600 wounded, 600 more soldiers and unknow quantity of refugees. 11.09 ship sink. 251 mens was saved, including 62 civil. T.139 with LAPPLAND go to Gotenhaven, so mother and brothe of Arvo can't be there. Maybe T.196? She saved people from MOERO and then may head to Reval.

asubris
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Re: The hospital ship Moero

Post by asubris » 28 Nov 2010 21:08

Hello Igor
Thank you for your interest and research. I have discovered one mistake. My mother and brother were not listed or going on the Moero. My brother's grandparents in Estonia believed they were on the Moero and had drowned, because they did not know that they left Reval by a ship of the Kriegsmarine!
I quite agree, my brother can be mistaken about the exact type of ship he went on. But sure, it was very small and belonged to German Navy. It may have been a torpedo boat that did minesweeping. He does not remember any survivors being picked up. Certainly on the night of the 20th September, 1944 they had to cross by planks two submarines to get to the small navy vessel. They did clear some mines using long poles and shooting at them. Thank you for your help, the information has been very helpful.

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Re: The hospital ship Moero

Post by andrus » 28 Nov 2010 21:11

igorr wrote:Air attack commenced 10.51 and in 11.02 MOERO received 2 torpedoes. As KTB say, ship has on board 600 wounded, 600 more soldiers and unknow quantity of refugees. 11.09 ship sink.
Any comments about discrepancies with KTB Skl?
1100 Uhr wurde Geleit D."Moero" (6.111 BRT) auf Marsch von Reval nach Süden westl. Windau angegriffen. D. "Moero" wurde schwer getroffen und ist 1155 Uhr gesunken. [...] Der Dampfer hatte einschliesslich Besatzung 1237 Menschen an Bord. Nach bisherigen Meldungen werden 655 Vermisste gezählt, davon etwa 600 Verwundete.
Maybe T.196? She saved people from MOERO and then may head to Reval.
According to same source T196 was with "Sumatra":
1332 Uhr griffen 5 Boston NW-Dagoe D. "Sumatra" an, der Torpedotreffer erhielt. [...] Der D. ist von T196 nach Libau geleitet.
Korthals speaks about T129, but this is probably typo - sketch shows T196 and T123.
Auf der SUMATRA bricht ein Brand aus. T 129 geht längsseits zur Unterstützung der Löscharbeiten.Der Brand kann nur schwer gelöscht werden, deshalb entschließt sich der Kommandant des T 129, in Alleinfahrt mit der SUMATRA nach Libau einzulaufen, um die Brandursache in der Griff zu bekommen.

igorr
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Re: The hospital ship Moero

Post by igorr » 29 Nov 2010 08:00

If we say about time, low level KTB much precise, i think. Additionally: KTB Adm. OO mentioned attack 11.00, sunk "wenig spater".
Alas! KTB 9 sich. division gives answer. 11.55 is time, when message from T.139 (send 11.15), was recorded in document. SKL erroneously take this time for MOERO's sinking. This is not first time, when SKL mistakes.
And about quantity of people, sink and saved, SKL must be best source.
About T.196 seems i've wrong. She not participated in rescuing survivors, there was WIESSMANN, T.1/8/9 and 2 R-boote from near commend convoy, then hospital ship BERLIN with one M-boot. This is from KTB 9 sich.div.

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Tim Smith
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Re: The hospital ship Moero

Post by Tim Smith » 29 Nov 2010 14:49

Juha Tompuri wrote:I don't want to sound unpolite, but I it sounds a bit strange that at that point of the events there would still have been uboats at the harbour.
Regards, Juha
They may have been unserviceable.

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Mischa
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Re: The hospital ship Moero

Post by Mischa » 29 Nov 2010 15:30

Tim Smith wrote:
Juha Tompuri wrote:I don't want to sound unpolite, but I it sounds a bit strange that at that point of the events there would still have been uboats at the harbour.
Regards, Juha
They may have been unserviceable.
Hello,
no Tim. The German subs operated in the 2. half of 1944 from Kotka but after 04.09.1944 I don not know, perhaps from Libau, but i do not read about Reval (Meister, Morosov).

Regards
Mischa

asubris
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Re: The hospital ship Moero

Post by asubris » 29 Nov 2010 19:26

Hello all,
Reference to the two submarines in Tallinn/Reval. My brother is absolutely certain there were two. They had to cross over them by gang planks. He may know the difference between German Navy ships, but can recognise submarines. Thanks for your analysis, it is making us think more carefully too. This so called 'minesweeper' left on the 21st September, 44. Other facts, he remembers it did not have weapons on board ie cannons, machine guns, other than hand held. There were some soldier on board, they called in at Liepeja, Latvia, Lithuania, perhaps somewhere else. They stayed for several days. There was a hold on the deck behind the bridge which was sheeted over. These men had come to destroy installations in Tallinn that might have been useful to the Russians. It turned out they did not do that in Tallinn, but the fact that the journey took three weeks, suggests they may have done things like that in Latvia and Lithuania. Certainly my mother said the ship was full of explosives, she had seen them as she was allowed on to the deck. My mother described them as 'mines'. Perhaps they were simply land mines or general explosives for sabotage. Your questioning of our facts has helped narrow the argument down. I think this has helped us to understand more about what went on. Regards Arvo.

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Juha Tompuri
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Re: The hospital ship Moero

Post by Juha Tompuri » 29 Nov 2010 23:56

Don't know about the unarmed minesweepers, but there really seemed to have been uboat(s) at Tallinn at that date:
http://www.uboat.net/boats/patrols/u1165.html

Regards, Juha

asubris
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Re: The hospital ship Moero

Post by asubris » 30 Nov 2010 00:03

Thanks for that confirmation about U boats. I am beginning to believe that what we believed to be minesweeper was an auxiliary ship with some soldiers on board doing demolition work. They probably started in Estonia and were working back to Germany. Regards Arvo

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