michael mills wrote:Here Hitler is clearly saying that the Hungarian Government should intern its Jewish citizens, and the logical implication is that those camps would be situated in Hungary and run by the Hungarian Government.
A very good information about the camps in Slovakia:
It is worth mentioning:
http://www.holocaustforum.gov.se/confer ... huster.htm
The Slovak non-Jews saved no less than ten thousand Jewish lives during the Shoah, while putting their own lives at risk.
That is, one third
of the slovakian jews was saved by non-jews, not because it was interned in camps, under Slovak supervision.
michael mills wrote:(...) That is made clear by the reference to Slovakia. The Slovakian Government had taken the initiative in interning its Jews and putting them into labour camps. Early in 1942, the Slovakian Government had handed over to Germany a number of the Jews, in response to a request from Germany for labour. The Jews capable of labour were sent to Auschwitz, where they were registered for forced labour and not gassed. Those incapable of labour were sent to the Lublin District, where their later fate is unclear. (The deportation of the nonworking Jews was not requested by Germany, but the Slovak Government had insisted that if Germany wanted the Jews capable of work, it had to take the unfit ones as well). However, only part of the Jews interned in Slovakia had been handed over to the Germans. As of 1943, some 32,000 remained in labour camps in Slovakia; some 57,000 had been handed over.
The "unfits" for work were their families.
What actually happened with those incapable of labour? Maybe Wisliceny's deposition at Nuremberg will help us solve the "mistery":
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Will you tell the Tribunal under what circumstances and what was the substance of the order?
WISLICENY: In the spring of 1942 about 17,000 Jews were taken from Slovakia to Poland as workers. It was a question of an agreement with the Slovakian Government. The Slovakian Government further asked whether the families of these workers could not be taken to Poland as well. At first Eichmann declined this request.
In April or at the beginning of May 1942 Eichmann told me that henceforward whole families could also be taken to Poland. Eichmann himself was at Bratislava in May 1942 and had discussed the matter with competent members of the Slovakian Government. He visited Minister Mach and the then Prime Minister, Professor Tuka. At that time he assured the Slovakian Government that these Jews would be humanely and decently treated in the Polish ghettos. This was the special wish of the Slovakian Government. As a result of this assurance about 35,000 Jews were taken from Slovakia into Poland. The Slovakian Government, however, made efforts to see that these Jews were, in fact, humanely treated; they particularly
tried to help such Jews as had been converted to Christianity. Prime Minister Tuka repeatedly asked me to visit him and expressed the wish that a Slovakian delegation be allowed to enter the areas to which the Slovakian Jews were supposed to have been sent. I transmitted this wish to Eichmann and the Slovakian Government even sent him a note on the matter. Eichmann at the time gave an evasive answer.
Then at the end of July or the beginning of August, I went to see him in Berlin and implored him once more to grant the request of the Slovakian Government. I pointed out to him that abroad there were rumors to the effect that all Jews in Poland were being exterminated. I pointed out to him that the Pope had intervened with the Slovakian Government on their behalf. I advised him that such a proceeding, if really true, would seriously injure our prestige, that is, the prestige of Germany, abroad. For all these reasons I begged him to permit the inspection in question. After a lengthy discussion Eichmann told me that this request to visit the Polish ghettos could not be granted under any circumstances whatsoever. In reply to my question "Why?" he said that most of these Jews were no longer alive. I asked him who had given such instructions and he referred me to an order of Himmler's. I then begged him to show me this order, because I could not believe that it actually existed in writing. He...
at http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/p ... #wisliceny
Here is another source. One of the 600 to 800 survivors speaks:
"The deportation of the Jews from Slovakia to the ghettos in the Lublin district and to Auschwitz, which began on March 25, 1942, was based on an agreement between the Slovakian and German governments. By October 20, 1942, about 58,000 Slovakian Jews had been deported, 39,000 of them to the Lublin district, the remainder to Auschwitz.<1> The transports were carried out in Slovak trains and under Slovak guard up to the border. At the first station within the confines of the General Government, the train and its human cargo passed into the hands of the Germans, who escorted the train to its destination. In some of the ghettos to which the Slovakian Jews were brought, there were still some local Jews left. In some places they found empty ghettos; the former inhabitants had already been annihilated in the death camps. A survivor of such a journey, who passed through Sobibor and some labor camps but who succeeded in escaping and
returning to Slovakia, testified about his experience:
On May 21, 1942, our transport, consisting of about 1,000 Jews, was deported from Sabinov via Zilinia, Cadca, directly to Poland. At the boundary we were told to line up. We were counted by the
SS [men] on the station platform, while the women were counted in the carriages. Then we continued our journey for thee or four days until we reached Rejowiec-Lubelski [Lublin district], where we left the carriages... ... On the next day, May 27, two transports of a size similar to ours
arrived from Stropov and Humenne, so that we were then all together 3,000 Slovakian Jews.
On August 9, 1942, German police suddenly ordered a general lineup. The entire Jewish population, including all the Jews of the ghetto as well as the labor camp, all together about 2,700 people, had to line up on the main square before the school with their luggage. All those who had not been able to obey the order owing to illness or exhaustion were shot in their quarters....
We were taken over at Rejowiec railway station by the so-called `Black Ukrainians.' There we were squeezed into waiting cattle trucks, 120 to 150 persons per truck, without being registered.
The doors were then closed from the outside, and the trucks were left standing at the station till 8 p.m
We arrived at Sobibor shortly past midnight, where SS men with nagaikas [horse whips] received us. There at last we got a little water, through no food. We were subsequently lined up in a pine
alley, divided by sexes, and twenty-five men were told to fall out to clear luggage and corpses out of the trucks. We never saw those men again. In the morning we saw most of the women move in
ranks of four to a yard some distance away. At 8 a.m. the SS lieutenant came to us and told all those who had previously worked at draining swamps to fall out. About 100 men and 50 women stepped forward, 155 in all, to whom the lieutenant remarked cryptically: `You are born a new.' From the remaining group, mechanics, locksmiths, and watchmakers were separated, while the rest had to follow the women to the yard n the distance, and shared their fate. ...
Our group of 155 was brought to Ossowa, where we spent one night.We were very well received and fed there by the Jews. At Ossowa there were about 500 Germans and Czech Jews. Jewish Ghetto Police accompanied us to Krychow....
On October 16 we were told that a certain proportion of workers was to be sent to the `Jewish City' of Wlodawa on the Bug, 25 km from Krychow.... Four days after they arrived at Wlodawa, the
entire Jewish population was deported to Sobibor....<2>
From the 39,000 Slovakian Jews who had been deported to the Lublin district, about 24,500 were murdered in Sobibor, 7,500 in Belzec, and 7,000
in Treblinka. <3>"
<1> Livia Rotkirchen, "Churban Yahadut Slovakia" (The Destruction of Slovak
Jewry), Jerusalem, 1961, p.104
<2> Yad Vashem Archives, M-2/236
<3> Ruckerl, Adalbert, "NS-Vernichtungslager in Spiegel deutscher
Strafprozesse, DTV Dokumente", Munich, 1977, p. 148
After all this, the internment of hungarian jews, proposed at Klessheim, has only one meaning: a first step to deportation for Poland. The nazis would leave the Hungarian fascists do the dirty work for them.
Mister Mills wrote:Chalutzim ( = "Pioneers" in Hebrew; a quintessentially Socialist Zionist nom de plume, no doubt proclaiming ideological adherence) wrote:
Nice try Mr. Mills. But you missed completely the point. Only our fellow poster, Roberto, guessed it at once.