The killing of Galizian jews in 1941/1942

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
Martin Månsson
Financial supporter
Posts: 1023
Joined: 09 Mar 2002 11:59
Location: Sweden

The killing of Galizian jews in 1941/1942

Post by Martin Månsson » 02 Mar 2003 19:47

I wonder if any here are able to help me solving one question. Some 700 Galizian jews were killed duing autumn 1941. One source says that it was the SS-Division Wiking who carried out those killings. I've not found any charges against Wiking for this event, I've no doubts that they were killed but who carried out this executions? Was Wiking involved? Can anyone give the exact date when this occured?

Best regards
Martin

David Thompson
Forum Staff
Posts: 23272
Joined: 20 Jul 2002 19:52
Location: USA

Post by David Thompson » 02 Mar 2003 23:48

Martin -- Did the source say where in Galicia the killings in autumn 1941 are supposed to have taken place?

Martin Månsson
Financial supporter
Posts: 1023
Joined: 09 Mar 2002 11:59
Location: Sweden

Post by Martin Månsson » 03 Mar 2003 00:23

The location I can find out is Gusisatin (Husiantyn) and the date is somewhere around mid-July 1941.

Best
Martin

average
Banned
Posts: 49
Joined: 06 Mar 2003 07:07
Location: LA

wat

Post by average » 08 Mar 2003 03:39

what is a gazilian?

David Thompson
Forum Staff
Posts: 23272
Joined: 20 Jul 2002 19:52
Location: USA

Post by David Thompson » 08 Mar 2003 04:28

Average -- This is pretty simplistic, but a Galician is a native of the European province of Galicia (Ger. Galizien), which used to be part of Austria-Hungary, and after WWI was part of southern and eastern Poland. The province is north of the Carpathian mountains and Hungary, and runs from Auschwitz in the west to Brody, Tarnopol and Kolomea/ Kolomiya in the east. After WWII the province was divided. Now part of it is in southern Poland (around Cracow) and part is in the Ukraine (around Lvov/Lv'iv/ Lwow/ Lemberg). The folks who live there are proud and warlike (the SS raised many volunteers from the region), so mind your spelling. Don't confuse that Galicia with a different province, bearing the same name, in Spain. I was going to post an old map of the area for you, but it had too many pixels to fit.

Somosierra
Member
Posts: 281
Joined: 29 Dec 2002 00:16
Location: POLAND

Post by Somosierra » 08 Mar 2003 11:48

David Thompson wrote:Average -- This is pretty simplistic, but a Galician is a native of the European province of Galicia (Ger. Galizien), which used to be part of Austria-Hungary, and after WWI was part of southern and eastern Poland. The province is north of the Carpathian mountains and Hungary, and runs from Auschwitz in the west to Brody, Tarnopol and Kolomea/ Kolomiya in the east. After WWII the province was divided. Now part of it is in southern Poland (around Cracow) and part is in the Ukraine (around Lvov/Lv'iv/ Lwow/ Lemberg). The folks who live there are proud and warlike (the SS raised many volunteers from the region), so mind your spelling. Don't confuse that Galicia with a different province, bearing the same name, in Spain. I was going to post an old map of the area for you, but it had too many pixels to fit.


David,

The term “Galizien” was discovered by Austrians in 1772 to justify the first partition of Poland and they wanted to show the World that Habsburgs had rights to the Polish land.

Just check older maps. Those territories have its own and ancient names: Malopolska (“Little-Poland” Western and Eastern, Podolia etc.).

Those nice people were defended by Poles in 1683. Because of the Polish king John III Sobieski they are still existing (thanks to Poles – today Vienna is populated by Austrians not Turks)…

Regards,
Somosierra.

Image

Caldric
Member
Posts: 8077
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 21:50
Location: Anchorage, Alaska

Post by Caldric » 08 Mar 2003 12:34

Martin Månsson wrote:The location I can find out is Gusisatin (Husiantyn) and the date is somewhere around mid-July 1941.

Best
Martin


In the book Masters of Death, it talks about the Wiking Division executing Jews on or about (could have been a few days earlier) 9 July 1941 in Lvov, this was after a sniper or some other gunmen shot a Regimental Commander. According to a German Gunther Otto at Nuremburg trials and in his deposition he stated the Wiking Division gathered some 60 Jews and made them run a Gauntlet where they were beat with rifles, at the end of the gauntlet they were shot by officers of the Wiking Division and dumped into a bomb crater.

Something that is interesting however is that the Heer and SS apparently also occupied Tarnopol around the same time, and on 11 July 1941 Einsatzkommando 4b reported the deaths and execution of 727 Jews in Tarnopol. Apparently the Wehrmacht had some blood on their own hands in these killings. General Otto Korfes (be interesting to learn what unit he commanded it does not say here) recorded in his diary about the executions of the Jews, including women and children. This was entered on July 3rd 1941.

It is possible that the Wiking divisions executions of the 60 Jews in Lvov and the Wehrmacht/EK 4b assisted executions in Tarnolpol could have been in the same report or have been reported as all of them being done by the Wiking division. Just a guess, it would be around 700 killed since not all of these were Jews apparently. There is also some mention of Luck, but that was mostly Blobels Sonderkommando 4a unit doing the killing in and around Luck.

With the insane Einsatzkommandos running around shooting every Jew they could find I could see how easy it would be for the German Army both Waffen SS and Heer could be caught up in the events. It is for sure that the Wiking division executed Jews in Lvov, Tarnopol would be pushing it, and I can not see them being all the way up in Luck at the same time unless they went through Luck and went South East to Lvov and on East into Tornopol.

If you want the exact quote from Gunther Otto or General Korfes let me know, I paraphrased it above however, they mostly only talk about what they were seeing not any specifics on units etc.

And on another note the executions by the Wehrmacht in Tornopol was started by them finding 9 German soldiers mutilated. Which started a frenzy of Jew killing.

Sorry I know this is somewhat vauge but it appears the place was in mass confusion in July 1941. Hope it helps some.

User avatar
Juha Hujanen
Financial supporter
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Mar 2002 11:32
Location: Suur-Savo,Finland

Post by Juha Hujanen » 09 Mar 2003 16:34

Here's some eye withness accounts of Finnish members of Wiking Division.Accounts are from Mauno Jokipii book-Panttipataljoona,which is definitive history of Finnish Wiking volunteers and IMO the best Wiking Division history book between units formation and spring 43.

Here's Olavi Liesinen's (16./Norland) account of atrocity in Tarnopol.

"... Parts of civilian population of Tarnopol had defended the city with arms.With their sabotage acts they had caused quite a lot harm to Germans.Everything seems to go smoothly between us and civilians but we had quessed wrong the Germans plans.
We had taken the town,mission was accomplished,and we were about to leave, when we were ordered to go houses and tell all males between 15-60 to report to town square for idenfication check.

Kalle and i went to tour together.When we went to houses we told men and young boys to report in the square.Everything went ordery and the orders were followed in good faith.We didn't controll if they went,its was up to them...
When we were waiting in the cars for the departure order,we heard machine pistols firing long bursts.We thought it was surprise attack and went to find out what was happening.We did find terrible surprise.In the square,where we had ordered men to go,was a massacre in progress.Some 500-600 youngster and men were massed together and 5 German machine pistol men were firing them.Animal like screams,vain escape attemps from death.That heap became grave and tomb,both were made from people who were alive just a moment ago.
This horrible sight was watched by relatives,wifes,mothers and children of victims.What did they think?.What little boy of girl thinked when we saw the massacre of his father of brother?.A curse was casted to future of mankind.I realised that,even the victims were strangers to me.My faith that matters in this world were fixed with this war collapsed.With eerie feeling i did returned to truks.Germans justified their deeds with sabotage acts but it was futile.Of course the most innocent had came to square,German command acted like madmen"

Interestingly after 6 months Liesinen was captured by Russians.One of few Finns volunteers did became pow's.What is more surprising he did survived Russian captevity and returned to Finland after war.

Finnish Volunteer Lappi-Seppälä remembers that after Westland CO was killed,1./Westland cathered 36 jews.Their money and clothes were handed to Polish population and they were shot 5 at the same time to grave dug for horse carcass. He also says that jews were mistreaded and civilians harrashed in Kirovo.

Olavi Liesinen remembers

"For jews who met with military colums, the meeting ment death ot atleast brutal,inhumane treatment.I remember how jew men,woman or child came towards our trucks running like chased animal.Men with hat in ther hand,bowing to German soldiers as they ran.Grotesque threaths and aims with guns scared these poor souls.Colums were long and the amok run with death in their heels was horrible..."

Veikko Hallavo from 2./Pz.Jg.Abt 5 remembers

"The night was spend in a house,which had all jews shot.These germans can be so gruel.First they made them to dig a grave for horse.All the diggers are over 60 years.When the horse is half covered with dirt they make one of jews to lay next the horse and he is shot.Others cover him and things go on...

So it seems that Wiking also participated to killing of jews but not in mass scale.Killing seems to be happened in no organized fashion but nevethertheless they did take place.

Regards/Juha

marian
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: 17 Jun 2004 16:40
Location: Poland

Polska

Post by marian » 18 Jun 2004 15:03

tak Polska to piekny kraj

David Thompson
Forum Staff
Posts: 23272
Joined: 20 Jul 2002 19:52
Location: USA

Post by David Thompson » 18 Jun 2004 16:52

Marian -- Welcome to the forum. The language used here is English, because most of the readers can speak it. If you want a non-English expression in your post, please provide a translation so that the readers know what you're talking about.

marian
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: 17 Jun 2004 16:40
Location: Poland

Poland

Post by marian » 18 Jun 2004 17:35

I said yes Poland is a beatyfull contry in Polish language ohhhh sory about that I know only English

User avatar
Askold
Member
Posts: 1815
Joined: 23 Mar 2002 08:30
Location: Ukraine

Post by Askold » 21 Jun 2004 17:37

Whats with this polish propaganda? Name "Galicia" comes from medieval Ukrainian city "Halych" - hence the name "Halychyna" - "Galicia" in Latin. The city was the seat of most powerful prince in the region and thus, the name spread to signify the whole territory. "Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria" was used by the Pope to refer to Ukrainian king Daniel (who build Lviv). In 1358 the kingdom went under Polish rule, as Kazimir was the closes kin to last Ukrainian ruler George II. At some point the Hungarian prince Andrew was crowned "king of Galicia" - the Austrians used this, as a pretext to attack Poland and take the province for themselves.

P.S. I thought Somosiera was banned on this forum.

David Thompson
Forum Staff
Posts: 23272
Joined: 20 Jul 2002 19:52
Location: USA

Post by David Thompson » 21 Jun 2004 17:58

Askold -- You said:
P.S. I thought Somosiera was banned on this forum.

You're mistaken:

viewtopic.php?t=7219

User avatar
Askold
Member
Posts: 1815
Joined: 23 Mar 2002 08:30
Location: Ukraine

Post by Askold » 22 Jun 2004 03:01

...and thats very sad.

Karl
Member
Posts: 2729
Joined: 12 Mar 2002 02:55
Location: S. E. Asia

Post by Karl » 22 Jun 2004 03:14

Somosierra wrote:Those nice people were defended by Poles in 1683. Because of the Polish king John III Sobieski they are still existing (thanks to Poles – today Vienna is populated by Austrians not Turks)…


You have made a mistake.

That distinction may be applicable to Imperial Russia, if anyone…

Return to “Holocaust & 20th Century War Crimes”