19,4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette
19,4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette
Hello
On this picture from Ebay you can see the 19,4 cm Kanone 485 (f) with the primer , now my quistion
looks that the sign is a "Gemse" does somebody know if this is a French or a German division sign ??
Because the German "Gemse" would be from the 5. Gebirgsjäger-Division ??
Regards Jos
On this picture from Ebay you can see the 19,4 cm Kanone 485 (f) with the primer , now my quistion
looks that the sign is a "Gemse" does somebody know if this is a French or a German division sign ??
Because the German "Gemse" would be from the 5. Gebirgsjäger-Division ??
Regards Jos
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Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette
Hi Jos,
The style of the sign seems German to me. The 5. Gebirgsjäger-Div. was not the only unit to use it, the 707. Inf.-Div. and the I. Gruppe/JG 51 used a very similar sign:
http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/emblems/heer/707inf.jpg
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... JG51-1.jpg
I've read that those guns were used by the 84. Artillerie-Regiment, although I am not sure. But I think we can assume that it is the sign of a independent artillery Regiment or Abteilung.
Sorry I couldn't help further.
Simon
The style of the sign seems German to me. The 5. Gebirgsjäger-Div. was not the only unit to use it, the 707. Inf.-Div. and the I. Gruppe/JG 51 used a very similar sign:
http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/emblems/heer/707inf.jpg
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... JG51-1.jpg
I've read that those guns were used by the 84. Artillerie-Regiment, although I am not sure. But I think we can assume that it is the sign of a independent artillery Regiment or Abteilung.
Sorry I couldn't help further.
Simon
Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette
As far as I could find, only one French artillery regiment was armed with the 194 mm gun on tracked chassis in 1939-1940: 184e RALT (Régiment d’Artillerie Lourde Tractée) ( = 184th Towed Heavy Artillery Regiment). However, I haven’t been able to find this regiment’s insignia yet for comparison.
Emmanuel
Emmanuel
Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette
A nice picture from this gun from Ebay .
Regards Jos
Regards Jos
Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette
Dear All,
Going back to Jopaerya's post at the top of this thread, and specifically to the photo attached thereto, I have a photo of the 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette in German service which shows a similar marking, but not quite the same. It seems to be missing the upper half of the 'blade' (for want of a better description, the 'blade' is the shorter, curved, part of the marking).
Best,
Nezar
Going back to Jopaerya's post at the top of this thread, and specifically to the photo attached thereto, I have a photo of the 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette in German service which shows a similar marking, but not quite the same. It seems to be missing the upper half of the 'blade' (for want of a better description, the 'blade' is the shorter, curved, part of the marking).
Best,
Nezar
Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette
Thanks Nezar
For sharing these picture , looks from the same unit ( French or German )
Regards Jos
For sharing these picture , looks from the same unit ( French or German )
Regards Jos
- schwarzermai
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Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette
hello
only 3 german units were equipted with this gun
schwere Batterie (mot.) 917 (1942-44)
schwere Batterie (mot.) 9./355 (December 1943-June 1944)
4th battery of schwere Artillerie-Abteilung (mot) II./84 (only temporary may-december 1942)
II./84 had different unit emblem
Uwe
only 3 german units were equipted with this gun
schwere Batterie (mot.) 917 (1942-44)
schwere Batterie (mot.) 9./355 (December 1943-June 1944)
4th battery of schwere Artillerie-Abteilung (mot) II./84 (only temporary may-december 1942)
II./84 had different unit emblem
Uwe
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223633
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette
Thank you, Uwe.
I understand that schw. Bttr. (mot) 917 exchanged its 19,4 cm guns for one battery of 15cm K39 and one battery of 15cm SK C/28 on Mrs. Lafette, either in July 1942 or July 1943 depending on the sources. Do you have any conclusive information about these dates?
Emmanuel
I understand that schw. Bttr. (mot) 917 exchanged its 19,4 cm guns for one battery of 15cm K39 and one battery of 15cm SK C/28 on Mrs. Lafette, either in July 1942 or July 1943 depending on the sources. Do you have any conclusive information about these dates?
Emmanuel
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Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette
Hello Emmanuel
917 were founded with 19,4cm K. (Sf.) and never changed their equipment
i found no notes of org.abt. or Gen.d.Art/OKH about a changing into 15cm K.
-
ever 19,4cm K. (Sf.) in 1942 or 1943 and still in 1945 its an 19,4cm K. battery
my last info about this unit is from march 17, 1945 - its equipted with 19,4cm K. and 21cm K.
uwe
917 were founded with 19,4cm K. (Sf.) and never changed their equipment
i found no notes of org.abt. or Gen.d.Art/OKH about a changing into 15cm K.
-
ever 19,4cm K. (Sf.) in 1942 or 1943 and still in 1945 its an 19,4cm K. battery
my last info about this unit is from march 17, 1945 - its equipted with 19,4cm K. and 21cm K.
uwe
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223633
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette
Thanks, uwe.
My mistake, I was looking at my notes on Art.Abt. 767 (mot.). I think Bttr. 917 was 3./767 earlier.
Emmanuel
My mistake, I was looking at my notes on Art.Abt. 767 (mot.). I think Bttr. 917 was 3./767 earlier.
Emmanuel
- schwarzermai
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Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette
Hello EmmanuelManuferey wrote:for one battery of 15cm K39 and one battery of 15cm SK C/28 on Mrs. Lafette, either in July 1942 or July 1943 depending on the sources. Do you have any conclusive information about these dates?
Emmanuel
1./767 were rearmed to 3x 15cm K.18 in Oct'1941 - first it was demanded to 15cm K.39, later changed into 15cm K. SKC28 but finally it was ordered to 15cm K.18
3./767 were resolved at Jan'30, 1942
do you think the personal of 3./767 later set the personal for 917??
Uwe
-
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223633
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette
Uwe,
This is what I have found:
Art.Abt. 767 (mot.)
18 Apr 40 formed in WK II with two batteries of 21cm Kanone
10 May 40 OKH reserve?
10 Apr 41 reinforced with 3./
22 Jun 41 6th Army Reserves, Army Group South
13 Jul 41 6th Army reserve, Army Group South
22 Sep 41 4th Romanian Army, Army Group South, siege of Odessa
7 Feb 42 3./ redesignated as Bttr. 917 (Sfl.), equipped with 194mm French guns
6 Jun 42 1./ assigned to LIV Corps, 2./ assigned to XXX Corps, 11th Army, Army Group South
[Niehorster: Jul 42, 11th Army, Army Group South equipped with one battery of 15cm K39 and one battery of 15cm SK C/28 on Mrs. Lafette
1 Oct 42 Gruppe Wetzel, 17th Army, Army Group A less 2./ assigned to XXXXIV Corps, 17th Army
4 Jul 43 equipped with one battery of 15cm K39 and one battery of 15cm SK C/28 on Mrs. Lafette]
15 Sep 43 disbanded?
3 Nov 43 Stab redesignated as Stab III./AR 288 (18. Infanterie Division (mot.))
[Kaltenegger: Nov 43 2./ in Nikopol Bridgehead, assigned to Arko 404, 8th Army, Army Group South, equipped with 17cm K
13 Jun 44 1./ assigned to Heeres-Art.Brigade 140
7 Aug 44 2./ assigned to Heeres-Art.Brigade 388
30 Oct 44 2./ redesignated as 16./Volks-Art.Korps 388
Source: http://sturmvogel.orbat.com/artillery.html
Emmanuel
This is what I have found:
Art.Abt. 767 (mot.)
18 Apr 40 formed in WK II with two batteries of 21cm Kanone
10 May 40 OKH reserve?
10 Apr 41 reinforced with 3./
22 Jun 41 6th Army Reserves, Army Group South
13 Jul 41 6th Army reserve, Army Group South
22 Sep 41 4th Romanian Army, Army Group South, siege of Odessa
7 Feb 42 3./ redesignated as Bttr. 917 (Sfl.), equipped with 194mm French guns
6 Jun 42 1./ assigned to LIV Corps, 2./ assigned to XXX Corps, 11th Army, Army Group South
[Niehorster: Jul 42, 11th Army, Army Group South equipped with one battery of 15cm K39 and one battery of 15cm SK C/28 on Mrs. Lafette
1 Oct 42 Gruppe Wetzel, 17th Army, Army Group A less 2./ assigned to XXXXIV Corps, 17th Army
4 Jul 43 equipped with one battery of 15cm K39 and one battery of 15cm SK C/28 on Mrs. Lafette]
15 Sep 43 disbanded?
3 Nov 43 Stab redesignated as Stab III./AR 288 (18. Infanterie Division (mot.))
[Kaltenegger: Nov 43 2./ in Nikopol Bridgehead, assigned to Arko 404, 8th Army, Army Group South, equipped with 17cm K
13 Jun 44 1./ assigned to Heeres-Art.Brigade 140
7 Aug 44 2./ assigned to Heeres-Art.Brigade 388
30 Oct 44 2./ redesignated as 16./Volks-Art.Korps 388
Source: http://sturmvogel.orbat.com/artillery.html
Emmanuel
- schwarzermai
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Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette
Emmanuel, thanks for information.Manuferey wrote: 3./ redesignated as Bttr. 917 (Sfl.), equipped with 194mm French guns
Emmanuel
please change: ....(18. Infanterie Division (mot.)
in
18.Artillerie-Division
Uwe
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223633
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"
http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/
Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette
A picture from the book Deutsche Kanone und Mörser from what looks like a 19.4 cm gun
Regards Jos
Regards Jos