19,4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette

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jopaerya
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19,4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette

#1

Post by jopaerya » 28 May 2011, 15:10

Hello

On this picture from Ebay you can see the 19,4 cm Kanone 485 (f) with the primer , now my quistion
looks that the sign is a "Gemse" does somebody know if this is a French or a German division sign ??
Because the German "Gemse" would be from the 5. Gebirgsjäger-Division ??

Regards Jos
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19.4 cm Gemse.jpg
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Simperator
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Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette

#2

Post by Simperator » 28 May 2011, 20:49

Hi Jos,

The style of the sign seems German to me. The 5. Gebirgsjäger-Div. was not the only unit to use it, the 707. Inf.-Div. and the I. Gruppe/JG 51 used a very similar sign:

http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/emblems/heer/707inf.jpg

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... JG51-1.jpg

I've read that those guns were used by the 84. Artillerie-Regiment, although I am not sure. But I think we can assume that it is the sign of a independent artillery Regiment or Abteilung.
Sorry I couldn't help further.

Simon


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Manuferey
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Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette

#3

Post by Manuferey » 29 May 2011, 00:51

As far as I could find, only one French artillery regiment was armed with the 194 mm gun on tracked chassis in 1939-1940: 184e RALT (Régiment d’Artillerie Lourde Tractée) ( = 184th Towed Heavy Artillery Regiment). However, I haven’t been able to find this regiment’s insignia yet for comparison.

Emmanuel

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Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette

#4

Post by jopaerya » 10 Aug 2011, 18:41

A nice picture from this gun from Ebay .

Regards Jos
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19.4 cm French gunjpg.jpg

na4222
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Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette

#5

Post by na4222 » 12 Apr 2013, 00:16

Dear All,

Going back to Jopaerya's post at the top of this thread, and specifically to the photo attached thereto, I have a photo of the 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette in German service which shows a similar marking, but not quite the same. It seems to be missing the upper half of the 'blade' (for want of a better description, the 'blade' is the shorter, curved, part of the marking).

Best,

Nezar

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Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette

#6

Post by na4222 » 12 Apr 2013, 14:25

Further to my post above, here is a cropped take from my photo.

Best,

Nezar

Image

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Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette

#7

Post by jopaerya » 12 Apr 2013, 17:49

Thanks Nezar

For sharing these picture , looks from the same unit ( French or German )

Regards Jos

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schwarzermai
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Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette

#8

Post by schwarzermai » 12 Apr 2013, 18:52

hello

only 3 german units were equipted with this gun

schwere Batterie (mot.) 917 (1942-44)
schwere Batterie (mot.) 9./355 (December 1943-June 1944)
4th battery of schwere Artillerie-Abteilung (mot) II./84 (only temporary may-december 1942)

II./84 had different unit emblem

Uwe
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223633

My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"

http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/

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Manuferey
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Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette

#9

Post by Manuferey » 12 Apr 2013, 23:18

Thank you, Uwe.

I understand that schw. Bttr. (mot) 917 exchanged its 19,4 cm guns for one battery of 15cm K39 and one battery of 15cm SK C/28 on Mrs. Lafette, either in July 1942 or July 1943 depending on the sources. Do you have any conclusive information about these dates?

Emmanuel

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Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette

#10

Post by schwarzermai » 13 Apr 2013, 07:07

Hello Emmanuel

917 were founded with 19,4cm K. (Sf.) and never changed their equipment

i found no notes of org.abt. or Gen.d.Art/OKH about a changing into 15cm K.
-
ever 19,4cm K. (Sf.) in 1942 or 1943 and still in 1945 its an 19,4cm K. battery

my last info about this unit is from march 17, 1945 - its equipted with 19,4cm K. and 21cm K.

uwe
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223633

My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"

http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/

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Manuferey
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Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette

#11

Post by Manuferey » 13 Apr 2013, 14:17

Thanks, uwe.

My mistake, I was looking at my notes on Art.Abt. 767 (mot.). :oops: I think Bttr. 917 was 3./767 earlier.

Emmanuel

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schwarzermai
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Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette

#12

Post by schwarzermai » 13 Apr 2013, 15:01

Manuferey wrote:for one battery of 15cm K39 and one battery of 15cm SK C/28 on Mrs. Lafette, either in July 1942 or July 1943 depending on the sources. Do you have any conclusive information about these dates?

Emmanuel
Hello Emmanuel

1./767 were rearmed to 3x 15cm K.18 in Oct'1941 - first it was demanded to 15cm K.39, later changed into 15cm K. SKC28 but finally it was ordered to 15cm K.18

3./767 were resolved at Jan'30, 1942

do you think the personal of 3./767 later set the personal for 917??

Uwe

-
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223633

My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"

http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/

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Manuferey
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Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette

#13

Post by Manuferey » 14 Apr 2013, 00:16

Uwe,

This is what I have found:

Art.Abt. 767 (mot.)
18 Apr 40 formed in WK II with two batteries of 21cm Kanone
10 May 40 OKH reserve?
10 Apr 41 reinforced with 3./
22 Jun 41 6th Army Reserves, Army Group South
13 Jul 41 6th Army reserve, Army Group South
22 Sep 41 4th Romanian Army, Army Group South, siege of Odessa
7 Feb 42 3./ redesignated as Bttr. 917 (Sfl.), equipped with 194mm French guns
6 Jun 42 1./ assigned to LIV Corps, 2./ assigned to XXX Corps, 11th Army, Army Group South
[Niehorster: Jul 42, 11th Army, Army Group South equipped with one battery of 15cm K39 and one battery of 15cm SK C/28 on Mrs. Lafette
1 Oct 42 Gruppe Wetzel, 17th Army, Army Group A less 2./ assigned to XXXXIV Corps, 17th Army
4 Jul 43 equipped with one battery of 15cm K39 and one battery of 15cm SK C/28 on Mrs. Lafette]
15 Sep 43 disbanded?
3 Nov 43 Stab redesignated as Stab III./AR 288 (18. Infanterie Division (mot.))
[Kaltenegger: Nov 43 2./ in Nikopol Bridgehead, assigned to Arko 404, 8th Army, Army Group South, equipped with 17cm K
13 Jun 44 1./ assigned to Heeres-Art.Brigade 140
7 Aug 44 2./ assigned to Heeres-Art.Brigade 388
30 Oct 44 2./ redesignated as 16./Volks-Art.Korps 388

Source: http://sturmvogel.orbat.com/artillery.html

Emmanuel

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schwarzermai
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Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette

#14

Post by schwarzermai » 14 Apr 2013, 17:29

Manuferey wrote: 3./ redesignated as Bttr. 917 (Sfl.), equipped with 194mm French guns
Emmanuel
Emmanuel, thanks for information.

please change: ....(18. Infanterie Division (mot.)
in
18.Artillerie-Division

Uwe
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=223633

My Bookproject: "Organisationsgeschichte der deutschen Heeresartillerie im II. Weltkrieg"

http://balsi.de/Heeresartillerie/

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Re: 19.4 cm Kanone 485 (f) auf Selbstfahrlafette

#15

Post by jopaerya » 14 Jan 2014, 21:04

A picture from the book Deutsche Kanone und Mörser from what looks like a 19.4 cm gun

Regards Jos
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Naamzloos.jpg

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