Did Churchill really say "We slaughtered the wrong pig?"

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Sid Guttridge
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Re: Did Churchill really say "We slaughtered the wrong pig?"

Post by Sid Guttridge » 06 Jul 2011 11:28

Hi Attrition,

Everything you say about the limitations of the Liberal Democracies in 1939 is true, and more besides.

But in every case you mention emancipation generated by internal developments occurred in post-war decades.

Furthermore, the roots of such emancipation can be seen in the inter-war years. In the UK the India Act predated actual independence by over a decade, Jamaica got representative government in 1944 and France already had a black governor of one of its colonies.

So there was a real qualitative difference between the Liberal Democracies and the Totalitarian powers.

As for the British wartime government, it was a fully inclusive national coalition exempting not a single party that had parliamentary representation. There was only no election in 1940 because the war created an emergency and there was unanimity on its suspension amongst all national parties. Furthermore, by-elections continued to be held.

None of these reasons or circumstances pertained in Nazi Germany or the USSR. The twin Totalitarian powers were ideologically opposed to free elections and did not recognize the concept of a "loyal opposition" as existed in all Liberal Democracies.

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Re: Did Churchill really say "We slaughtered the wrong pig?"

Post by Gooner1 » 06 Jul 2011 11:49

Attrition wrote: Let's not be misled about the constitutional superiority of the winning side.
Indeed. Although the Fascist states and the Soviet Union did practice a rather purer form of 'One Man, One Vote' :lol:

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Attrition
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Re: Did Churchill really say "We slaughtered the wrong pig?"

Post by Attrition » 06 Jul 2011 12:01

Fnar, fnar! I suppose that Churchill grudgingly allowed this in India where Gandhi saw him off. ;O)

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Did Churchill really say "We slaughtered the wrong pig?"

Post by Sid Guttridge » 07 Jul 2011 10:39

Hi Attrition,

Actually, YES!

Even the old imperialist grudgingly came to realize that time was up and the British Labour Government policy on post-war Indian Independence was a bipartisan one supported by the Conservative Party.

It is also worth noting that Gandhi's Congress Party came to an aghreement with the British not to pursue Independence agressively during the war, in order to enable the British to pursue it without hinderance. The quid pro quo was to be early independence.

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moodiee
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Re: Did Churchill really say "We slaughtered the wrong pig?"

Post by moodiee » 26 Jul 2011 05:47

George Patton quoted once that 'We fought the wrong people'. I had read that Churchill did call Germans pigs next to the Japanese but never seen a document Churchill quoting 'We slaughtered the wrong pig'.
Wehrmacht= Men of courage.

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Re: Did Churchill really say "We slaughtered the wrong pig?"

Post by katanatan » 06 Jun 2017 10:25

"Germanys unforgivable crime before WW2 was its attempt to loosen its economy out of the world trade system and to build up an own exchange system from which the world-finance couldnt profit anymore. ...We butchered the wrong pig." - Winston Churchill, The Second World War (Book by Winston Churchill, Bern, 1960) [Amazon] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Second-World-W ... dp_product

Haven't read it myself, but it is a common quote.

Aber
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Re: Did Churchill really say "We slaughtered the wrong pig?"

Post by Aber » 06 Jun 2017 17:03

katanatan wrote:"Germanys unforgivable crime before WW2 was its attempt to loosen its economy out of the world trade system and to build up an own exchange system from which the world-finance couldnt profit anymore. ...We butchered the wrong pig." - Winston Churchill, The Second World War (Book by Winston Churchill, Bern, 1960) [Amazon] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Second-World-W ... dp_product

Haven't read it myself, but it is a common quote.
And wrong.

See for example:

/viewtopic.php?t=93082
Mr. Richard Langworth of the Churchill Centre has now replied. According to him there were no hits for "Germany's unforgivable crime" or "create her own exchange mechanism" in their 13 million word digital file of Churchill's written and spoken words. He also told me that the "wrong pig" quote also seems like a misquote.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Did Churchill really say "We slaughtered the wrong pig?"

Post by Sid Guttridge » 06 Jun 2017 17:26

Hi Aber,

Nice work.

On this occasion you appear to have slaughtered the right pig.

Cheers,

Sid

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Sheldrake
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Re: Did Churchill really say "We slaughtered the wrong pig?"

Post by Sheldrake » 06 Jun 2017 18:33

nobodyofnote wrote:The earliest statement I've come across attributed to Churchill is "It is clear to me now that we have slaughtered the wrong pig". In the news journal The New Statesman and Nation, volume 35, page 373, dated 28th August 1948. It alludes to Churchill's touring bombed-out German cities in 1945. I've never seen the official Churchill transcripts of his speeches during that tour though. Even the article back then used the word "supposedly". Maybe it was an off-the-cuff remark, or something he said that was taken out of context. I'm not certain. Requires further digging.
The New Statesman and Nation is a left wing magazine which is scarcely the most reliable source for statements by leader of the Tory Party. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Statesman

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Attrition
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Re: Did Churchill really say "We slaughtered the wrong pig?"

Post by Attrition » 06 Jun 2017 21:08

The New Statesman hasn't been left wing since the 1990s, even if you call "Liarbour-supoporting" left-wing. You aren't commenting in the guise of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonel_Blimp are you? ;O))

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Sheldrake
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Re: Did Churchill really say "We slaughtered the wrong pig?"

Post by Sheldrake » 07 Jun 2017 00:14

Attrition wrote:The New Statesman hasn't been left wing since the 1990s, even if you call "Liarbour-supoporting" left-wing. You aren't commenting in the guise of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonel_Blimp are you? ;O))
eh? What do you read? Socialist Worker?

PS Colonel Blimp was a decent if misunderstood chap. ;)

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Attrition
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Re: Did Churchill really say "We slaughtered the wrong pig?"

Post by Attrition » 07 Jun 2017 00:34

Pah! I have no truck with such right-wing deviationism, they're worse than the Judean People's Front. ;o)

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Re: Did Churchill really say "We slaughtered the wrong pig?"

Post by Tucobenedito » 10 Oct 2018 20:14

Churchill was a drunken war monger who was paid significant sums of money for his pro war activities long before he became PM. He was a Tory, they will say or do anything for a profit. A drunk often times has no control over what they say, he would have been no different
He is despised in my hometown, which is also his wife's hometown, where he was briefly MP. Very few Churchill fans in Dundee.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Did Churchill really say "We slaughtered the wrong pig?"

Post by Sid Guttridge » 10 Oct 2018 20:26

Hi Turcobenedito,

And yet you say he got elected in Dundee..............?

Obviously alcoholic, financially corrupt, war mongers were once flavour of the month there!

I would have inserted "Tory" into the above list of his attributes, but actually he was a Liberal at the time.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Attrition
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Re: Did Churchill really say "We slaughtered the wrong pig?"

Post by Attrition » 10 Oct 2018 20:44

To be pedantic, it isn't an election if it isn't democratic. British parliamentary votes aren't democratic and never have been.

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