Soviet manpower--how large exactly?

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CJK1990
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Soviet manpower--how large exactly?

Post by CJK1990 » 24 Jun 2011 22:59

Basically, I'm wondering just exactly how many males could potentially be mobilized by the Soviet Union, excluding the males that were lost in territory seized by Germany in 1941.

I have read that the Germans genuinely believed that the attrition the Red Army suffered was so severe that eventually they would run out of troops, and I'm interested in exactly how close the Soviets actually got to that point.

Art
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Re: Soviet manpower--how large exactly?

Post by Art » 25 Jun 2011 12:41

There is a known report by Tschadenko from September 1942 (published by S.N.Mikhalev in "Ludksie poteri...") which have the following data on manpower resources:

I. Available by the start of the war:
a) reservists of 1890-1921 classes (as of 1.01.41) - 20 230 800
b) officers of reserve 893 200
c) enlisted men in the peace-time army 3 679 200
d) officers of the peace-time army 554 200
e) recruits of 1922-23 classes - 2 118 600
f) -------1924-25 - 1 450 000
g) men reserved for employment in industry - 2 781 000
Total 31 500 0000 men or about 16,4% of the entire population according to Tschadenko

II. used for the armed forces by 1.09.42 - 18 069 000, including:
a) on active service in the army, navy, NKVD forces - 11 055 700
b) in hospitals - 766 000
c) discharged due to unfitness - 1 115 000
d) died of wounds in hospitals - 177 000
e) killed and missing in action - 4 920 300

III. Other usage and losses:
a) men not subject to initial mobilization and lost with the occupied territory - 5 631 000, including:
- classes of 1890-1904 - 3 628 000
- men without military training - 822 000
- men from Moldavia and Baltic republics - 668 000
- classes of 1923-24 - 513 000
b) exempt from military service due to national affiliation (Germans, Romanians etc) - 250 000
c) planned transfers to the armed forces in September and later according to the GKO decree No.2100 - 1 380 000 (of them 880 thousands newly conscripted and 500 thousands relieved from the navy and auxiliary forces)
Total used up 1 September 1942 - 24 830 000 men

IV. Remaining unused resources:
a) reserved for employment in the civil economy - 2 781 000
b) in labor columns - 1 321 000
c) recruits born in 1925 - 700 000
d) non-conscripted men fully fit for service in the Central Asian Military District - 600 000
e) non-conscripted men with limited fitness or in the age above 45 (without Far-East and Transcaucasus) - 500 000 (of them 277 000 in the Central Asia)
f) non-conscripted men in the Far East, Trasnbaikal and Transcaucasus Fronts 505 000 (including 200 000 with limited fitness and 200 000 in age above 45).
g) officers of reserve, not conscripted yet - 156 000
h) expected convalescents from hospitals in 3 nearest months - 350 000
i) in the penitentiary system - 1 156 000 men in age from 17 to 45.

Tschadenko's math in some cases looks questionable, but it must give the general idea, I believe. Total number of people in military service during the war was about 34,5 millions, of them some 2 millions of recruits born in 1926-27 and 0,5 millions of women, which lives about 32 millions of men born by 1.01.1926 versus 31,5 million resource calculated by Tschadenko.

CJK1990
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Re: Soviet manpower--how large exactly?

Post by CJK1990 » 25 Jun 2011 19:24

Interesting. So it would seem that as of September 1942 there were only about 7 million left, many of them not fully fit or stuck in necessary civilian occupations or imprisoned.

According to Krivosheev there were 5.4 million irrecoverable losses sustained from the fourth quarter of 1942 to the end of the war, including 1.4 miilion sustained before the red army began it's late 1943 offensives which began to recover territory that Germany seized during Barbarossa.

Were Soviet replacements found by digging into the not fully fit and civilian occupations/prisons, or did they mainly come from people drafted after territory was retaken? If the latter, where did they find the 1.4 million+ men to replace losses before significant territory was retaken?

ljadw
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Re: Soviet manpower--how large exactly?

Post by ljadw » 25 Jun 2011 21:55

Using irrevocable losses is always tricky:you are forgetting the non irrevocable losses,5.5 million in 1943,5.1 million in 1944,1.8 million in 1945 :these were not lost,but were forming a big pool .
Whatever,the 4 million of irrevocable lossesfor 1943-1944 were easily replaced by new recruits /recovered ,because in november 1942,the Russian strength was 10.6 million,january 1944 11 million and january 1945 11.4 million .

Art
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Re: Soviet manpower--how large exactly?

Post by Art » 27 Jun 2011 20:30

CJK1990 wrote: Were Soviet replacements found by digging into the not fully fit and civilian occupations/prisons, or did they mainly come from people drafted after territory was retaken? If the latter, where did they find the 1.4 million+ men to replace losses before significant territory was retaken?
There were from all sources, I believe. There was an untouched pool of men of young ages (born in 1924 and later), men were replaced in civil occupations by women and teenagers. Physical standards were apparently lowered so aged or not physically fir men replaced those more suitable in rear and auxiliary units. In all during the war about 3 800 thousands men were discharged for medical reasons from the armed forces after hospitalization. Of them after 1 150 thousands were called up again after reexamination. Also large contingents were transferred to so called labor columns in the beginning of the war, from 1942 they were combed for additional manpower. Finally there were millions conscripted from the occupied territories.
Tschadenko's own proposals described in his memorandum were as follows:
a) 270 thousands men could drawn from the contingents reserved in economy
b) 230 thousands - from the labor columns
c) 700 thousands from the class of 1925
d) 200 thousands fully fit men from the Central Asia
e) 100 thousands returned from camps and prisons
f) 200 thousands partly fir or aged (>45) men, of them 100 000 from the Central Asia
together with about 600 000 convalescents from hospitals that would give 2 300 000 men for the nearest 6-7 months before the spring of 1943.
For comparison there were the following governmental decisions on new drafts in the second half of 1942:
GKO decree No.2100, 26 July 1942: 650 000 from the class of 1924, 100 000 (up to 35 years old) from reserved in economy, 50 000 (up to 45) - from labor columns, 35 000 (up to 40) from police and NKVD organs, 30 000 (up to 40) from camps and colonies, 15 000 from labor settlements. Total 880 000, plus 100 000 were to be relieved by cutting down the navy and 400 000 - rear and auxiliary services of the army.
GKO decree No.2640, 20 December 1942: the entire class of 1925 (except men working in most important branches of industry), 200 000 men from the Central Asia (up to 40 years old), 30 000 (up to 40) from camps and colonies, 200 000 previously reserved for civil employment. Plus plenty of men relived from nonessential positions inside the armed forces again.

Art
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Re: Soviet manpower--how large exactly?

Post by Art » 27 Jun 2011 20:31

CJK1990 wrote: Were Soviet replacements found by digging into the not fully fit and civilian occupations/prisons, or did they mainly come from people drafted after territory was retaken? If the latter, where did they find the 1.4 million+ men to replace losses before significant territory was retaken?
There were from all sources, I believe. There was an untouched pool of men of young ages (born in 1924 and later), men were replaced in civil occupations by women and teenagers. Physical standards were apparently lowered so aged or not physically fir men replaced those more suitable in rear and auxiliary units. In all during the war about 3 800 thousands men were discharged for medical reasons from the armed forces after hospitalization. Of them after 1 150 thousands were called up again after reexamination. Also large contingents were transferred to so called labor columns in the beginning of the war, from 1942 they were combed for additional manpower. Finally there were millions conscripted from the occupied territories.
Tschadenko's own proposals described in his memorandum were as follows:
a) 270 thousands men could drawn from the contingents reserved in economy
b) 230 thousands - from the labor columns
c) 700 thousands from the class of 1925
d) 200 thousands fully fit men from the Central Asia
e) 100 thousands returned from camps and prisons
f) 200 thousands partly fir or aged (>45) men, of them 100 000 from the Central Asia
together with about 600 000 convalescents from hospitals that would give 2 300 000 men for the nearest 6-7 months before the spring of 1943.
For comparison there were the following governmental decisions on new drafts in the second half of 1942:
GKO decree No.2100, 26 July 1942: 650 000 from the class of 1924, 100 000 (up to 35 years old) from reserved in economy, 50 000 (up to 45) - from labor columns, 35 000 (up to 40) from police and NKVD organs, 30 000 (up to 40) from camps and colonies, 15 000 from labor settlements. Total 880 000, plus 100 000 were to be relieved by cutting down the navy and 400 000 - rear and auxiliary services of the army.
GKO decree No.2640, 20 December 1942: the entire class of 1925 (except men working in most important branches of industry), 200 000 men from the Central Asia (up to 40 years old), 30 000 (up to 40) from camps and colonies, 200 000 previously reserved for civil employment. Plus plenty of men relived from nonessential positions inside the armed forces again.

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