Little boy with his hands in the air

SneintonJim · Post by **SneintonJim** » 23 Apr 2002 23:20

It's one of the most evocative images of WW2 - the little boy, looking towards the camera, with his hands in the air.

Is it true that someone now living in the USA has come forward claiming to be that very boy? And if so has his claim been verified?

kobold · Post by **kobold** » 23 Apr 2002 23:32

i dont recall the picture-can you post a link or the picture itself?

Kobold

Scott Smith · Post by **Scott Smith** » 24 Apr 2002 01:09

The Ghetto Boy is Zvi Nussbaum, deported from the Warsaw Ghetto, gassed or deloused at Treblinka, and now living in New York City.

mike262752 · Post by **mike262752** » 24 Apr 2002 04:10

I heard the German soldier looking at the camera was identified and executed. I find that hard to belive though, you can barley see his face, and he doesnt look much diffrent from anyone else in a uniform.

Nigel · Post by **Nigel** » 24 Apr 2002 05:22

There is an extensive story about the young boy and his fate. A link to the web site will be ound on the main page at http://www.thirdreich.net.

"I heard the German soldier looking at the camera was identified and executed. I find that hard to belive though, you can barley see his face, and he doesnt look much diffrent from anyone else in a uniform."

As for the German soldier the story reports the following:

"Today we know his fate, too: His name was Josef Blösche, a vicious and sadistic man known in the Ghetto as "Frankenstein". After the war he fled but was recognized in Soviet zone of Germany by survivors from the Ghetto, put on trial and convicted of murder. He was executed for his crimes ..."

I cannot vouch for the accuracy of any of this, I can only tell you where to find it.

Cheers Nigel

SneintonJim · Post by **SneintonJim** » 24 Apr 2002 11:56

Thank you for the information.

Given it is such a remarkable story of survival against the odds I am amazed that it hasn't been given far more publicity in the wider media.

Any thoughts why that may be so?

Scott Smith · Post by **Scott Smith** » 24 Apr 2002 14:12

SneintonJim wrote:Thank you for the information.

You're welcome.

Given it is such a remarkable story of survival against the odds I am amazed that it hasn't been given far more publicity in the wider media.

Any thoughts why that may be so?

Because it is a famous atrocity photo--and the "atrocity" showed up as a New York physician alive and well! OOPS!

All people deported from the Warsaw Ghetto were supposed to have been gassed at the Reinhardt camps. Yet here that not only did not happen but the Nazis kept a "useless eater" alive until the end of the war. Either it's a fluke or there is something quite wrong with the Exterminationist thesis. (And no, I am not saying that Jews were not killed and horribly abused by the Nazis.)

In addition, the "Ivan the Terrible" story about the SS policeman holding the MP 34 is even more laughable.

Best Regards,
Scott

Roberto · Post by **Roberto** » 24 Apr 2002 21:21

Scott Smith wrote: All people deported from the Warsaw Ghetto were supposed to have been gassed at the Reinhardt camps.

Wrong. The picture was taken during the Warsaw Uprising and is part of the so-called "Stroop Report", in which SS-Brigadeführer (Major-General) Jürgen Stroop commemorated his successful "murder expedition" (that's how Jodl despectively called it). The report contains the following references to transports to "T II" (= the Treblinka extermination camp):

April 25, 1943:

In total, 1690 Jews were captured alive. According to stories from the Jews, there have definitely also been parachutists dropped here and bandits who have been supplied weapons from an unknown location. 274 Jews were shot, and as on other days, uncounted Jews were buried alive in the blown-up bunkers and, as near as can be determined, burned. With today's bounty of Jews, a very large portion of the bandits and lowest elements of the Ghetto has, in my opinion, been captured. Immediate liquidation was not carried out due to the onset of darkness. I will attempt to obtain a train for T II for tomorrow, otherwise the liquidations will be carried out tomorrow.

April 26, 1943:

At this time there are no more captured Jews in Warsaw. The previously mentioned transport to T.II was successful.

May 13, 1943:

The few Jews and criminals still remaining in the ghetto have for 2 days used the refuges available in the ruins in order to go back to their well-known bunkers at night, and there to eat and supply themselves for the next day. No evidence on further bunkers known to them can be obtained from the captured Jews. The rest of the inhabitants, where the fire fight took place, were destroyed by the strongest explosive charges. From a Wehrmacht operation 327 Jews were captured today. These captured Jews will only be sent to T.II.

May 24, 1943:

Of the overall total of 56,065 captured Jews, about 7,000 have been destroyed in the course of the large-scale action in the former Jewish living quarter. 6,929 Jews were destroyed by transport to T. II, so that overall, 13,929 Jews were destroyed. It is estimated that, in addition to the number of 56,065, 5 - 6,000 Jews were destroyed by explosions and fire.

Source of quote:

Stroop on Treblinka
by Jamie McCarthy
http://www.holocaust-history.org/stroop-on-treblinka/

Emphases are McCarthy's.

So out of 56,065 Jews captured during the repression of the uprising, only 6,929 were sent to Treblinka, which at that time was too busy with the burning of the corpses to take in more new arrivals, and killed there. The ever-increasing need of slave labor may also have contributed to the fact that the remaining survivors were sent either to labor camps or to Majdanek or Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp, where death could be avoided - at least for the time being - by those who were able-bodied enough to work or useful for medical experiments or could convince the selectors that they possessed some valuable skill.

Yet here that not only did not happen but the Nazis kept a "useless eater" alive until the end of the war. Either it's a fluke or there is something quite wrong with the Exterminationist thesis.

Or the boy could convince the selecting bodies at Auschwitz-Birkenau or Majdanek that he possessed some valuable skill - e.g. that he was an expert shoemaker -, or he managed to flee along the way, or the need for slave labor was so bad at the time of his arrival at either place that selection standards were relaxed. Besides, you have to be a "Revisionist" True Believer to assume that an exception of one disproves a documented rule that just happens not to fit into your ideological bubble.

(And no, I am not saying that Jews were not killed and horribly abused by the Nazis.)

Tell us, Reverend, how many Jews do you think died at the hands of the Nazis? And how many of those would you consider victims of murder? Just curious ...

In addition, the "Ivan the Terrible" story about the SS policeman holding the MP 34 is even more laughable.

Well, you better take that up with Stroop's photo album:

http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/ ... img014.jpg

And here's the scum of humanity, from the same picture book:

http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/ ... img012.jpg

Scott Smith · Post by **Scott Smith** » 25 Apr 2002 02:17

Roberto,

The Ghetto Boy photograph has been used as atrocity propaganda on the clearing of the ghetto since I was a boy. It's no surprise that the details were not correct.

Roberto wrote:Tell us, Reverend, how many Jews do you think died at the hands of the Nazis? And how many of those would you consider victims of murder? Just curious ...

I said I don't have any problem with Hilberg's 5.1 million, not so much because I like his methodology but that I have read Sanning and I don't see how the Nazis could have possibly gotten their hands on more than about five-million Jews. It simply blinks at reality not to consider that some were not refugees that went East into the depths of Russia. As far as demogrpahic details, I don't know. That is not my area of interest or expertise.

As far as how many were murdered, we would need more than broad statistics but to look at individual details. I don't know. By your reckoning the Nazis started the war so the death toll is 50 million or more. Of course, I strongly disagree with your Genocide-theory-of-history and the obscene Holocaust cultification.

Best Regards,
Scott

Here's some more Holo-ART for you...

Roberto · Post by **Roberto** » 25 Apr 2002 20:33

The Ghetto Boy photograph has been used as atrocity propaganda on the clearing of the ghetto since I was a boy.

What’s “atrocity propaganda” for you, Reverend? From our lengthy conversations I conclude that it’s the documentation of any inconvenient fact that doesn’t fit into your bizarre dream-world.

It's no surprise that the details were not correct.

What details were not correct, Reverend?

Roberto wrote:
Tell us, Reverend, how many Jews do you think died at the hands of the Nazis? And how many of those would you consider victims of murder? Just curious ...

I said I don't have any problem with Hilberg's 5.1 million, not so much because I like his methodology but that I have read Sanning and I don't see how the Nazis could have possibly gotten their hands on more than about five-million Jews.

Oh, the Reverend has read Sanning, the manipulator of statistics who, among other things, tried to make believe that 100,000 Polish Jews left Poland every year between 1931 and 1931 when in fact that was about the total of Jews who emigrated from the country between 1931 and 1937, according to Polish emigration statistics and the immigration statistics of the US and other countries that Sanning conveniently ignored. And of course the Reverend piously and uncritically believed what his guru told him, without taking into account what must have been a rather flagrant mendacity in regard to sources and the assessment thereof. Ever wondered why contemporary documents like the protocol of the Wannsee Conference and the Korherr Report indicate at least nine million Jews living in countries within the German area of influence in Europe, Reverend?

It simply blinks at reality not to consider that some were not refugees that went East into the depths of Russia.

Some did, for sure, and they have been taken into account in studies like a recent one by Gerd Robel in Wolfgang Benz' Dimensionen des Völkermords, which concluded on ca. 2.8 million Jewish victims in the territories of the Soviet Union as of 22.06.1941.

As far as demogrpahic details, I don't know. That is not my area of interest or expertise.

Thanks a lot. That’s what I wanted to hear. The relevant issues don’t matter to the Reverend, he prefers the irrelevant minor details. Very instructive. But why, then, did he read Sanning? This True Believer’s book, by the way, is considered by John Zimmerman the most sophisticated work of denial ever written, because it takes the only approach that, if successful, could get the “Revisionists” somewhere. Only Sanning, Reverend, or did you also have a look at some of the serious literature?

As far as how many were murdered, we would need more than broad statistics but to look at individual details. I don't know. By your reckoning the Nazis started the war so the death toll is 50 million or more.

The Reverend is obviously playing dumb, so I’ll have to be more precise:

Do you consider the at least 1.5 million Jews shot into mass graves by Einsatzgruppen and other German formations in the occupied territories of the Soviet Union to have been victims of mass murder, yes or no?

Do your consider the at least 2.7 million Jews who were killed at the extermination camps to have been victims of mass murder, yes or no?

Of course, I strongly disagree with your Genocide-theory-of-history

The Reverend still has to explain what a “Genocide-theory-of-history” is supposed to be. Sound like another product of his fertile fantasy.

and the obscene Holocaust cultification.

I don’t give a damn about the “cultification”, and I wouldn’t even be talking about the Holocaust if it were not for the Reverend and his ilk. I only care about the facts, as you well know – namely the ones that your kind desperately but futilely tries to do away with. So better try producing answers and arguments instead of hollow slogans, Reverend.

Here's some more Holo-ART for you...

Not interested, thanks. Why this fixation, by the way?

Scott Smith · Post by **Scott Smith** » 26 Apr 2002 01:00

Medorjurgen wrote:Do you consider the at least 1.5 million Jews shot into mass graves by Einsatzgruppen and other German formations in the occupied territories of the Soviet Union to have been victims of mass murder, yes or no?

In general, I have no problem with the number of about a million or so executed by the Einsatzgruppen, and that most of them did not deserve it by any cruel wartime reckoning. As far as particulars, I don't know. Each case has to be taken on its own terms. After looking at the Soviet Krasnodar/Kharkov trials and their patent lies, I have doubts in that case, for example. So, YES, generally, the killings are true; NO, universally, the killings are not always true.

Medo wrote:Do your consider the at least 2.7 million Jews who were killed at the extermination camps to have been victims of mass murder, yes or no?

I question the calculus. It has been shown that it is easy to get simple details like the murder weapons wrong and to generate LIES for the sake of atrocity propaganda. I will not dispute the numbers, however, because I am not an expert and I simply do not know. Unlike most regarding this subject, I do not bring any apriori conclusions to the investigation. For some it is not an investigation at all but a matter of religious FAITH. Here I question both Diety and the Miracles.

Medo wrote:
Scott wrote:Here's some more Holo-ART for you...
Not interested, thanks. Why this fixation, by the way?

It illustrates for me the degeneracy and obscenity of the Holocaust Cult. I sense that you are embarassed to be associated with this depravity. I assure you the Holocult is not my obsession. I am merely curious about Groupthink and atrocity propaganda.

However, by declaring war against skeptics like me you put your palms together and worship at the Holocult altar, whether you like it or not. I have never said that nothing bad ever happened to Jews. But I do believe in historical perspective. And I think that is a reasonable stance.

Roberto · Post by **Roberto** » 26 Apr 2002 01:40

Medorjurgen wrote:
Do you consider the at least 1.5 million Jews shot into mass graves by Einsatzgruppen and other German formations in the occupied territories of the Soviet Union to have been victims of mass murder, yes or no?

In general, I have no problem with the number of about a million or so executed by the Einsatzgruppen, and that most of them did not deserve it by any cruel wartime reckoning. As far as particulars, I don't know.

Make it “I don’t want to know”, and the above is about as honest as anything your can get out of the Reverend.

Each case has to be taken on its own terms.

Any terms that could make a particular massacre look any better than it does, buddy?

After looking at the Soviet Krasnodar/Kharkov trials and their patent lies,

What “patent lies”? You have an inaccuracy about an irrelevant minor detail – the type of the engine – at worst. So cut out the crap.

I have doubts in that case, for example.

Doubts that have no substance in the face of the documentary evidence and the eyewitness evidence assessed by West German courts.

So, YES, generally, the killings are true; NO, universally, the killings are not always true.

Fair enough, though I don’t remember the Reverend having yet demonstrated a single example of the latter.

Medo wrote:
Do your consider the at least 2.7 million Jews who were killed at the extermination camps to have been victims of mass murder, yes or no?

I question the calculus.

No answer to the question, and on what basis does the Reverend “question the calculus”? Would he like to have another look at the documentary evidence and try to answer some questions related thereto?

It has been shown that it is easy to get simple details like the murder weapons wrong and to generate LIES for the sake of atrocity propaganda.

It has been shown? What the Reverend has shown so far are irrelevant inaccuracies about minor details at best and his own LIES at worst.

I will not dispute the numbers, however, because I am not an expert and I simply do not know.

Boy, that sounds so miserable. It would sound better if the Reverend replaced “do not know” with “do not care to know”.

Unlike most regarding this subject, I do not bring any apriori conclusions to the investigation.

I’d say you’re the only one who does exactly that Reverend. Why, all documentary, eyewitness and physical evidence can’t move you away from your pre-conceived notion that mass murder on the documented scale and in the documented manner didn’t happen because you don’t want it to have happened, ain’t that so, Reverend?

For some it is not an investigation at all but a matter of religious FAITH.

Always the same old bullshit. Could it be that the Reverend hasn’t yet realized that he is talking about no one other than himself?

Here I question both Diety and the Miracles.

No, Reverend, you don’t question them. You defend them with claws and teeth.

Medo wrote:
Scott wrote:
Here's some more Holo-ART for you...

Not interested, thanks. Why this fixation, by the way?

It illustrates for me the degeneracy and obscenity of the Holocaust Cult.

Well, I don’t especially like that art, but I wouldn’t consider it to be degenerate, obscene or corresponding to some “cult”.

I sense that you are embarassed to be associated with this depravity.

Dead wrong, Reverend. I’m just wondering why things that I would simply ignore bother you so much.

I assure you the Holocult is not my obsession.

Well, your persistent posting of colorful images from some Holocaust art site does not exactly support that contention.

I am merely curious about Groupthink and atrocity propaganda.

Another of the Reverend’s beaten bullshit slogans. In case he hasn’t noticed, he can find a lot more of what he’s so curious about with his “Revisionist” peers than anywhere else.

However, by declaring war against skeptics like me you put your palms together and worship at the Holocult altar, whether you like it or not.

I don’t declare war on skeptics. I am a skeptic who declared war on True Believers trying to sell propaganda nonsense. Big difference.

I have never said that nothing bad ever happened to Jews.

No, they were “horribly abused” and “sometimes killed”, weren’t they, Reverend?

But I do believe in historical perspective.

A perspective that is called defamation of the victims and apology of the killers, ain’t that so, Reverend?

And I think that is a reasonable stance.

No, Sir, it’s one that absolutely sucks.

Got to go now, old quack. See you later.

Scott Smith · Post by **Scott Smith** » 26 Apr 2002 03:30

I would say the Soviet Krasnodar/Kharkov show-trials are patent lies. There's too much to simply be a coincidence or something to gloss over.

See ya' later, good sport. 8)
~Scott

Helly Angel · Post by **Helly Angel** » 26 Apr 2002 03:30

Joseph Blosche SS Rottenführer was executed in East Germany in May 3, 1969 in the GUILLOTINE.

Roberto · Post by **Roberto** » 26 Apr 2002 14:35

Scott Smith wrote:I would say the Soviet Krasnodar/Kharkov show-trials are patent lies.

What you think and what you can demonstrate are two different things.

There's too much to simply be a coincidence or something to gloss over.

The only think I've seen is a possibly but not necessarily inaccurate description of the type of engine. Big deal. Considering the obvious coincidence of the Soviets courts' findings with the documentary evidence and later depositions before West German courts and conclusion drawn by those courts, I consider this error - if it is one at all - to be completely meaningless.

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