Musikkorps Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler in Poland

Discussions on the Holocaust and 20th Century War Crimes. Note that Holocaust denial is not allowed. Hosted by David Thompson.
User avatar
behemoth
Member
Posts: 150
Joined: 02 Apr 2006 18:47
Location: Arizona, USA

Musikkorps Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler in Poland

Post by behemoth » 30 Jun 2007 20:04

[Split from "Musikkorps Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler / Hermann Müller-John"]
mty wrote:
Timo wrote:The Musikkorps was formed on 04.08.1933, 36 musicians under "command" of SS-Hauptsturmführer Hermann Müller-John. In 1934 the orchestra was expanded to 72 men, selected on musical, health and racial qualifications. In the end the korps had a Sollstärke of 108 Musiker, but actual strength was 96 men. Musical education took place at the Staatl. Hochschule für Musik and in several Konservatorien, military training (parade training) took place together with I./LAH under command of Truppführern Plöw and Schmidl. Info about several concerts is given, if you're interested.

Müller-John's official title was Leibstandarten-Obermusikmeister, called Obumei by his men. He was 1.Musik-Inspizient der SS-VT and Mitglied des Reichs-Kultur-Senats. He made some radical changes to the orchestra, by adding Saxophones and other "Bigband" influences. He was respected by people like Prof. Erich Schumann and Erich Gutzeit (both composers) and Heeres-Musik-Inspizient Prof. Hermann Schmidt.

In 1945 he committed suicide in Austria, together with his wife and daughter. According to Lehmann this was his way to find peace with his involvement in the killing of 50 Polish civilians in 1939 (of whom several were Jewish).

According to Hstuf. Keilhaus and Hstuf. Ewert, the Musikkorps was shot at from a group of houses when their bus halted on a square. Several men were killed or wounded. Müller-John ordered the men of the Musikkorps and the medical column to search the houses. Weapons were found and the captured men were shot. v.Reichenau and von Rundstedt ordered a conduct and a trial and Müller-John was found guilty by a military court. Dietrich complained to Hitler and the führer signed a pardon. Officially because "crimes committed out of anger caused by the way the Poles treated the Volksdeutschen should not be punished". But Müller-John considered himself guilty of a war crime. According to Weingartner he told Paul Hausser: Wo das Verbrechen beginnt, hört die Kameradschaft auf!"
Timo commented earlier that he found suicide a way to find peace with his past actions and war crimes. But does anyone have more details about the event, why did his wife and daughter also chose the suicide? Or were their motives similar to those of for example Goebbels family.
This is a good question, let me "second" it. Is there any reason to believe that "Müller-John" was involved in any criminal activity? Not all members of the SS committed such acts.

User avatar
Minotauros
Member
Posts: 896
Joined: 15 Sep 2002 18:50
Location: Poland

Re: Musikkorps Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler in Poland

Post by Minotauros » 10 Aug 2011 11:07

Timo wrote: According to Hstuf. Keilhaus and Hstuf. Ewert, the Musikkorps was shot at from a group of houses when their bus halted on a square. Several men were killed or wounded. Müller-John ordered the men of the Musikkorps and the medical column to search the houses. Weapons were found and the captured men were shot. v.Reichenau and von Rundstedt ordered a conduct and a trial and Müller-John was found guilty by a military court. Dietrich complained to Hitler and the führer signed a pardon. Officially because "crimes committed out of anger caused by the way the Poles treated the Volksdeutschen should not be punished". But Müller-John considered himself guilty of a war crime. According to Weingartner he told Paul Hausser: Wo das Verbrechen beginnt, hört die Kameradschaft auf!"
An SS-man considering himself guilty of a war crime against Jews?!
What a nonsense!!
Hermann MÜLLER-JOHN shot single-handedly almost 50 Jews - Polish citizens - for one specific reason: they were JEWS and as a fanatical Nazi, MÜLLER-JOHN hated Jews most among other Untermenschen.
There was no "shooting on the Musikkorps by Hetzenschützen" - this was figured out later by KEILHAUS, EWERT and other Kameraden in order to cover up MÜLLER-JOHN when the latter was (briefly) arrested.
There was simple, premeditated murder on innocent people motivated by racial hate and the belief of impunity.
And MÜLLER-JOHN boasted about it without embarrasment at that time.

User avatar
Minotauros
Member
Posts: 896
Joined: 15 Sep 2002 18:50
Location: Poland

Re: Musikkorps Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler in Poland

Post by Minotauros » 01 Sep 2011 10:23

The massacre perpetrated by MÜLLER-JOHN and some of his subordinates took place on the night of 18 to 19 IX 1939 in Błonie (Poland).

Have a look on three excellent books published by the German historian, Dr. Jochen BÖHLER:

-"Größte Härte…" - Verbrechen der Wehrmacht in Polen September–Oktober 1939
Ausstellungskatalog, Fibre, Hamburg 2005, ISBN 3-938400-07-2

- Auftakt zum Vernichtungskrieg - Die Wehrmacht in Polen 1939
Bd. 550, Bonn 2006, ISBN 3-89331-679-5 & Fischer TB, Frankfurt 2006, ISBN 3-596-16307-2

- Der Überfall - Deutschlands Krieg gegen Polen
Eichborn, Frankfurt 2009, ISBN 3-821-85706-4

User avatar
Harro
Member
Posts: 3040
Joined: 19 May 2005 18:10
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Musikkorps Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler in Poland

Post by Harro » 01 Sep 2011 21:44

Minotauros wrote:An SS-man considering himself guilty of a war crime against Jews?!
What a nonsense!!.
You actually want to make such generalisations AND you want to be taken seriously at the same time?

Return to “Holocaust & 20th Century War Crimes”