What is this "ausrotten" supposed to mean?

[Thorfinn]

"In der Zerstörung von Sybaris durch Kroton, der sicherlich nur als Höhepunkt eines wilden Religionskrieges in der geschichtlichen Erinnerung haften blieb, entlud sich derselbe Haß, der auch in Karl I von England und seinen fröhlichen Kavalieren nicht nur eine Irrlehre, sondern auch die weltliche Gesinnung ausrotten wollte."




"The destruction of Sybaris by Kroton, which certainly remained in historical memory as simply the climax of a savage religious war, was an explosion of the same hatred which also wished to ausrotten, in Charles I of England, not only a false doctrine, but a worldly way of thinking."

[Davey Boy]

Well you're supposed to be the native German speaker Thorfinn. But to me, it sounds like to get rid of something. The way in which that something is to be gotten rid off is debatable though.

Btw, how are your plans for eight children coming along? Have you found the perfect German girl to help you with your ambitious project?

[Dan]

"In der Zerstíº‹íµ®g von Sybaris durch Kroton, der sicherlich nur als Hí¹¢íµ°unkt eines wilden Religionskrieges in der geschichtlichen Erinnerung haften blieb, entlud sich derselbe Ha߬ der auch in Karl I von England und seinen frí¹¢í¼©chen Kavalieren nicht nur eine Irrlehre, sondern auch die weltliche Gesinnung ausrotten wollte."




"The destruction of Sybaris by Kroton, which certainly remained in historical memory as simply the climax of a savage religious war, was an explosion of the same hatred which also wished to ausrotten, in Charles I of England, not only a false doctrine, but a worldly way of thinking."

Well, I'm probably the best qualified here to answer that, sense it was we Calvinists who did it.

In this case it simply means to wipe it from the face of the earth, i.e total destruction.

What year was that used in? Maybe we could test Kaschner's theory on the evolution of the word if we had the year in which it was used.

Best
Dan

[Charles Bunch]

"In der Zerstíº‹íµ®g von Sybaris durch Kroton, der sicherlich nur als Hí¹¢íµ°unkt eines wilden Religionskrieges in der geschichtlichen Erinnerung haften blieb, entlud sich derselbe Ha߬ der auch in Karl I von England und seinen frí¹¢í¼©chen Kavalieren nicht nur eine Irrlehre, sondern auch die weltliche Gesinnung ausrotten wollte."




"The destruction of Sybaris by Kroton, which certainly remained in historical memory as simply the climax of a savage religious war, was an explosion of the same hatred which also wished to ausrotten, in Charles I of England, not only a false doctrine, but a worldly way of thinking."

Well, I'm probably the best qualified here to answer that, sense it was we Calvinists who did it.

In this case it simply means to wipe it from the face of the earth, i.e total destruction.

What year was that used in? Maybe we could test Kaschner's theory on the evolution of the word if we had the year in which it was used.

Ausrotten, when used in a grammatical construction with a direct object which is a living thing, means kill. It has had this meaning for hundreds of years.

In 1534 Martin Luther's first German translation of the Bible appeared.

Here's a passage from Die Bibel Luther

http://www.hti.umich.edu/l/luther/browse.html

DAS ERSTE BUCH DER KÖNIGE

18. Kapitel

[18.3] Und Ahab rief Obadja, seinen Hofmeister - Obadja aber fürchtete den HERRN sehr;

[18.4] denn als Isebel die Propheten des HERRN ausrottete, nahm Obadja hundert Propheten und versteckte sie in Höhlen, hier fünfzig und da fünfzig, und versorgte sie mit Brot und Wasser -;

Translation:

And Ahab had called Obadiah, who was in charge of his house. (Now Obadiah feared the LORD greatly. For so it was, while Jezebel massacred the prophets of the LORD, that Obadiah had taken one hundred prophets and hidden them, fifty to a cave, and had fed them with bread and water.)

New King James Version
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?

[Thorfinn]

Well you're supposed to be the native German speaker Thorfinn. But to me, it sounds like to get rid of something. The way in which that something is to be gotten rid off is debatable though.

Btw, how are your plans for eight children coming along? Have you found the perfect German girl to help you with your ambitious project?

As to your second question, I am not close, but things change everyday, and I do admire those with large families. In reference to the main subject, I know what I think, but I wanted the opinions of others. Unlike some people, I think that ausrotten has many meanings, and it is, simply put, a very vague word.

Well, I'm probably the best qualified here to answer that, sense it was we Calvinists who did it.

In this case it simply means to wipe it from the face of the earth, i.e total destruction.

What year was that used in? Maybe we could test Kaschner's theory on the evolution of the word if we had the year in which it was used.

Best
Dan

You asked the most important question, Dan. The book, that the passage is from, is named Die Untergang des Abendlandes, and it is by Dr. Oswald Spengler. It was published in two volumes; from the year 1918, to the year 1923. The passage is from page 932.

Ausrotten, when used in a grammatical construction with a direct object which is a living thing, means kill. It has had this meaning for hundreds of years.

How well do you speak, read, and comprehend, German?




The book, Die Untergang des Abendlandes, is one of the best books ever published, and I recommend it. Does anybody have the original English translation of the book? We could then see what the given passage was originally translated to.

[walterkaschner]

Thorfinn,

I still have in my library the 2 volume edition of Spengler's "Decline of the West" (translated from "Der Untergang des Abendlandes" by Charles Francis Atkinson in 1928 and published by Alfred A. Knopf, 7th printing, in 1947). Unfortunately, although there is a table of page correspondence between the German and English editions, this relates only to the 2 volume editions rather than the one volume edition which you obviously have. If you could give me a Chapter or sub-chapter reference I could try to track down the English translation of the German passage you quoted, but I don't feel inclined to wade through the entirety of Spengler's magnum opus for that purpose.

I was captivated by Spengler as a youth but am very much less enthusiastic today. I guess my youthful delight in easy answers has been profoundly tempered with age. I now find the whole notion of cyclical inevitability pretty unpersuasive, and tend to place Vico, Danilevsky, Spengler, Toynbee etc. in my mental dustbin. You know, I'm sure, that Spengler was critical of Hitler and the Nazis as early as 1924 although I think it incorrect to maintain, as some do, that he was an anti-Nazi. He was certainly a precursor of Nazism, but he had no sympathy whatsoever with the Nazi concepts of racism and anti-semitism.

Regards, Kaschner

[panzertruppe2001]

People i am searching the word "exterminar" (exterminate in english) in a Spanish-German dictionary in the next web page :http://www.yourvirtualworld.de/woerterbuch/frame.php and says

Exterminar:ausrieden(Volk)
ausrotten
vertilgen
vernichten

I believe the correct word for exterminate is "ausrieden", think the note "volk" beside the translation

Thanks

[Karl]

Once, in all seriousness, someone here amongst us tried to assert that ausrotten meant French lessons.

[Andreas]

I believe the correct word for exterminate is "ausrieden", think the note "volk" beside the translation

Thanks

Well, as a German speaker with university level education, I can tell you that this is the first time I have heard of this work. I do not think it is a German word, and a quick search on Duden.de produced no hit.

I'd get another dictionary, if I were you.

The words I would use for exterminate are e.g. ausrotten, ausloeschen (extinguish), vernichten (destroy), depending on the context.

[maxxx]

isn´t their also an english word

to root (something) out ?

Ausrotten originally means to put something out with all its roots.

ausrieden exists, but is a rarely used old term. I think it comes from cultivating wine, where ausrieden was used when pulling out sick plants or plants from another sort out of the "ried" (wineyard)

maybe someone mixed it up with ausweiden (disembellow)

[David Thompson]

Readers interested in another 11 pages of discussion on the meaning of this word may be interested in these threads:

"Bismarcks's use of 'ausrotten'" (3 pps.)
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1585

"German for 'uprooting'" (8 pps.)
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=1284

[Heraklit]

An essentially unabridged one-volume edition of Oswald Spengler’s Der Untergang des Abendlandes was published by C.H. Beck in 1998. I say essentially unabridged inasmuch as there does not appear to be any changes from the original, except that the Tables Illustrating the Comparative Morphology of History at the end of volume one have been omitted.

Following is an excerpt containing the word ausrotten from page 932 of this one-volume edition:

“In der Zerstörung von Sybaris durch Kroton, die sicherlich nur als Höhepunkt eines wilden Religionskrieges in der geschichtlichen Errinnerung haften blieb, entlud sich derselbe Haß, der auch in Karl I. von England und seinen fröhlichen Kavalieren nicht nur eine Irrlehre, sondern auch die weltliche Gesinnung ausrotten wollte.”

The above passage was translated by Captain Atkinson in Volume Two, Chapter IX, Problems of the Arabian Culture, (C) Pythagoras, Mohammed, Cromwell, sub-chapter V on page 303 thusly:

“The destruction of Sybaris by Croton – an event which, we may be sure, has survived in historical memory only because it was the climax of a wild religious war – was an explosion of the same hate that saw in Charles I and his gay Cavaliers not merely doctrinal error, but also worldly disposition as something that must be destroyed root and branch." The words "destroyed root and branch" are obviously Captain Atkinson’s translation of the word under discussion.

The authorized Atkinson translations of some of Spengler’s writings are unquestionably of a high degree of excellence, but they are by no means perfect representations of the precise thoughts of the author. Also in relating the use of a particular word by one author to the exact meaning intended by another’s use of the same word in another context is wrought with difficulties and is of little or no real merit, except perhaps in partisan polemics.

[walterkaschner]

Thanks Heraklit!

Also in relating the use of a particular word by one author to the exact meaning intended by another’s use of the same word in another context is wrought with difficulties and is of little or no real merit, except perhaps in partisan polemics.

Indeed! And note Atkinson's translation of "fröhlichen Kavalieren" as "gay Cavaliers" - a translation perfectly acceptable in 1926, almost 80 years ago, when it was made, but which in today's usage is grievously misleading. Meanings can change with time and with context, but I still am of the conviction - as indicated in the previous threads on this topic cited by David Thompson above - that when used by the Nazi hierarchy, at least after late 1941, in the context of the future of European Jews "ausrotten" meant nothing other than "exterminate" = "kill."

Regards, Kaschner

[Baltasar]

http://dict.tu-chemnitz.de/

Aurotten means exterminate, extinguish or extripate.


I never heard a word like "ausrieden", I guess they propably mean "ausradieren", which in turn means "erase" has in this case the same meaning like "ausrotten".

[Dan]

I thought we agreed a couple years ago that deracinate was perhaps the best English word. Something about one of Shakespear's plays translating deracinate as ausrotten in German. So I typed in Ausrotten and deracinate at google and check this out. HA! The end of the matter!

Albanian zhduk (bump off, conceal, disperse, efface, hide, kill, obliterate, overturn, Rob, stave off, steal, wipe, wipe out), çrrënjos (deracinate, exterminate, extirpate, uproot). (various references)


Arabic ‏محا (blot out, deface, efface, erase, expunge, exterminate, extinguish, obliterate, rub out, scratch out, sponge out, wipe off, wipe out), ‏إستأصل (deracinate, enucleate, excise, extirpate, grub, root, stub), ‏إجتث (root, uproot, winkle out), ‏أباد (annihilate, destroy, devour, exterminate, extirpate, mow, polish off). (various references)


Bulgarian премахвам (cut out, delete, do away, do away with, eliminate, kill, level, make away with, obviate, put down, remove, rid, rip out, smooth, undo), изкоренявам (deracinate, do away with, exscind, exterminate, extirpate, pluck off, pluck up, root out, root up, unroot, uproot, weed out). (various references)


Chinese 吃 (destroy, eat, receive, stammer), 根除 (Eradicated, Eradicating), 揠 (pull up), 剷除 (root out). (various references)


Czech vymýtit (hack out, root out), vykořenit (extirpate, root, root up, unroot, uproot), vyhladit (annihilate, blot out, erase, even, even out, exterminate, obliterate, wipe out). (various references)


Dutch ontwortelen (digging rooted vines, to disroot, to root out, to unroot). (various references)


Esperanto elradikigi. (various references)


Finnish hävittää juurineen (destroy root and branch, root out). (various references)


French arracher. (various references)


German ausrotten (destroy, exterminate, extirpate, kill off, stamp out, to eradicate, to exterminate, to extirpate, uproot, wipe out). (various references)


Greek ξεριζώνω (dig up, extirpate, tear up, uproot, weed out), εκρίζω (extirpate, grub, rout, stub, uproot). (various references)


Hebrew לעקור (extirpate, pluck, pull out, pull up, uproot, yank), לנסוח (pull down, tear away, uproot). (various references)


Hungarian kipusztít (exterminate, extirpate, to eradicate, to exterminate, to obliterate), kiírt (exterminate, to obliterate), gyökereztet. (various references)


Indonesian membasmi (annihilate, deracinate, exterminate), basmi (burn off, exterminate). (various references)


Italian sradicare (pull up, root out, root up, stub, to disroot, to root out, to transplant, to unroot, uproot). (various references)


Japanese Kanji 絶やす (to eradicate, to exterminate, to letgo out). (various references)


Japanese Katakana たやす (to eradicate, to exterminate, to letgo out). (various references)


Manx cur jerrey er (conclude, cry off, discontinue, eliminate, extinguish, finish, resolve, sweep away), astyrt (abolish, abolition, dig out, eradication), astyral (abolish, dig out). (various references)


Norwegian utrydde (exterminate, extinguish). (various references)


Pig Latin eradicateay


Portuguese erradicar, irradiação (flux of radiation per unit area, incident solar radiation, insolation, irradiance, irradiation, radiant flux density, radiation, solar irradiation), arrancarcomaraiz. (various references)


Romanian extirpa (excise, exscind, extirpate, remove), extermina (blot, exterminate, extirpate), eradica, stinge (allay, annihilate, annul, appease, baste, choke, die, exterminate, extinguish, extirpate, hush, quench, quit, silence, slack, slake, smother, wither), stârpi (abolish, destroy, root, uproot, weed out), dezrãdãcina (deracinate, disroot, exterminate, extirpate, stub up, uproot). (various references)


Russian вырывать с корнем (deracinate, disroot, root out, uproot), искоренять (deracinate, disroot, exterminate, extirpate, kill out, root out, unroot, uproot). (various references)


Serbo-Croatian iskoreniti (deracinate, destroy, do away with, exterminate, extirpate, root, root out, root up, unroot, uproot). (various references)


Spanish erradicar. (various references)


Swedish utrota (deracinate, exterminate, extirpate, kill, root out). (various references)


Thai กำจัยจนหมยสิ้น. (various references)


Turkish yok etmek (charm away, clear off, cut off, cut up, dispose of, dissipate, dissolve, do away with, efface, eliminate, end, exterminate, extinguish, extirpate, liquidate, make away with, shatter, spirit away, spirit off, sponge out, stamp, wipe away, wipe off, wipe out), kökünden sökmek (disroot, extirpate, root away, root out, root up, stub, stub up, tear up, uproot), kökünden halletmek (clinch, extirpate), kökünü kurutmak (eat up, exterminate). (various references)


Ukranian виривати з коренем (deracinate, extirpate, outroot), викорінювати (deracinate, disroot, extirpate, outroot). (various references)


Welsh diwreiddio (uproot). (various references)

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.o ... icate.html