Beute numbers

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
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Manuferey
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Beute numbers

Post by Manuferey » 11 Aug 2011 00:11

[Split "6 inch Mk XIX and other British 6-inch in Wehrmacht?"]

Clive Mortimore wrote:Many Fremdengerat numbers are well known but there are some that do confuse me. Is it time that we tried to compile a complete list?


Clive,

There are lists of Beutenummner by type of artillery prepared by Antonia Pena here:
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=1262

Emmanuel

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Grigoriy
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Re: 6 inch Mk XIX and other British 6-inch in Wehrmacht?

Post by Grigoriy » 11 Aug 2011 05:44

Clive and Emmanuel,

if it is not too impertinently from my side — I made a list of Beutenummner based on Axis History Factbook but with lot of additions, questions, answers and versions found in different sourcies. If it is insteresting then I may try to post this expanded list here. It is sorted by nomber, not by country. I worked on it for several last years and this topic is a way to solve somy mysteries from this list.

Of course I'm a newbee here...
With best wishes
Grigoriy

Clive Mortimore
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Re: 6 inch Mk XIX and other British 6-inch in Wehrmacht?

Post by Clive Mortimore » 11 Aug 2011 09:08

Manuferey wrote:
Clive Mortimore wrote:Many Fremdengerat numbers are well known but there are some that do confuse me. Is it time that we tried to compile a complete list?


Clive,

There are lists of Beutenummner by type of artillery prepared by Antonia Pena here:
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=1262

Emmanuel


Hi Emmanuel

I have copied Antonia's list some time ago. While it is a great source of information as we have seen from the guns mentioned on this thread not all Fremdengerat numbers are on the list. There is no mountain artillery, some of the gaps are numbers used for mortars and there are the guns that were not captured, or if were not used.

Last night I started to sort out some of the information I have and came up with two weapons with the same number 7.5 cm FK 237 (i) (Krupp M-06, Cannone da 75/27 mod 06) and 7,5 cm GebK 237(f) (Can. 75 M Mle 1919) and one from another list, 7.62 cm FK 261(e) (13 pdr gun) not mentioned in Antonia's master peice. The only 13 pdrs in British service were (still are) those with Kings Troop RHA, the list I gained this information from stated that 9 were in service with the Germans in 1944. A little digging and they are guns sold to Estonia between the wars.

Using Antonia's list we have a good starting point, and with the knowledge on here I feel it could be fleshed out a bit and prehaps some of the oddities sorted.

Hi Grigoriy

It looks like you have done much of what I plan to do already :) I would love to see your results of your studies.

Clive
Clive

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Grigoriy
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Re: Beute numbers

Post by Grigoriy » 11 Aug 2011 11:09

Hi Clive!

I will start with a part of my list — 100s and 200s. Hope I will not be banned for such large posts... :)
Questions are red and versions are blue.

112 = 2,5cm PaK 112(f) = 25mm/L72 AT gun (Canon léger de 25 antichar SA-L Puteaux mle.1934), France

113 = 2,5cm PaK 113(f) = 25mm/L77 AT gun (Canon léger de 25 antichar SA-L Hotchkiss mle.1937), France

121 = 2,5cm KwK 121(f) = 25mm/L47.2 (or L60 ?) tank gun SA 35, France

142 = 3,7cm IK 142(j) = 37mm/L22 infantry gun, Yugoslavia (Mle 16, France)

143 = 3,7cm KwK 143(f) = 37mm/L33 (or L28 ?) tank gun SA 38, France (used on Renault R 40, Hotchkiss H 39)

144 = 3,7cm KwK 144(f) = 37mm/L21 tank guns SA 17, SA 18, SA 18 m 37, France (used on Renault FT 17/18 char canon, Renault R35, Hotchkiss H35/38, FCM 1936)

145 = 3,7cm IG 145(r) = 37mm infantry gun, USSR
146 = 3,7cm IG 146(r) = 37mm infantry gun, USSR

Version: 37mm/L19 Rosenberg gun M1915 (траншейная пушка образца 1915 года) and its modified version on carriage M1928 (образца 1928 года)

152 = 3,7cm IG 152(f) = 37mm/L22 infantry gun Canon d'Infantrie de 37 modele 1916 TRP (short name 37mm mle.1916), France

153 = 3,7cm PaK 153(h) = 37mm/L45 AT gun Pantserafweer-geschut van 37 (Rheinmetall), Holland (PAK 36, purchased in Germany)

154 = 4cm PaK 154(b) = british 2-pounder given to Belgian army.
Here (viewtopic.php?f=85&t=139571) is said that this is a mistake and Belgians had no 2-pounders.

156 = 3,7cm PaK 156(j) = 37mm/L47,8 AT gun Skoda vz.37, Yugoslavia

157 = 3,7cm PaK 157(d) = 37mm/L45 AT gun Bofors fodfolkskanon m/34, Denmark

158 = 3,7cm PaK 158(r) = 37mm/L45 AT gun M1930 (противотанковая пушка образца 1930 года), USSR (license-build PAK36)

159 = 3,8cm GrW 159(i) = 38mm mortar 38/8 M 31 Brixia, Italy
Source: Kennblatter Fremden Gerats D 50/8b.
Version: 38,5mm rifle grenade lauhcner Tromboncino Lanciabombe Modello 1928, used on 6,5mm Carcano rifle (called Moschetto di Fanteria Mod. 91/28 con Tromboncino).
Sourcies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifle_grenade and http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/cargrelau.html


161 = 3,7cm Spatengranatwerfer 161(r) = 37mm/L14 spade mortar M1939 (миномёт-лопата образца 1939 года), USSR

162 = 3,7cm PaK 162(i) = 37mm/L46,5 AT gun Cannone contracarro da 37/45, Italy (license-build PAK36)

163 = 3,7cm KwK 163(i) = 37mm tank gun 37/20Rh, Italy
Source: Kennblatter Fremden Gerats D 50/8b.
Version: all Italian tanks used 37/L40 gun. What is 37/L20 tank gun - a mystery.


164 = 3,7cm PaK 164(d) = 37mm/L60 AT gun Madsen fodfolkskanon Model 35, Denmark
Another 164 = 3,7cm KwK 164(i) = 37mm tank gun 37/40, Italy
Source: Kennblatter Fremden Gerats D 50/8b.
Version: standart Italy tank gun Vickers-Terni 37/40.


172 = 4,7cm KwK 172(f) = 47mm/L30 tank gun SA 34, France (used on AMC 1934, D1, B1)

173 = 4,7cm KwK 173(f) = 47mm/L32 tank gun SA 35, France (used on AMC 1935, Renault ACG1, Renault D2, Somua S35, Renault B1bis)

176 = 4,5cm GrW 176(i) = 45mm/L5,4 mortar morter de 45/5 M 35 "Brixia", Italy

177 = 4,7cm PaK 177(i) = 47mm/L32 AT gun Cannone da 47/32 M35, Italy (license-build Austrian Böhler)

179 = 4,7cm PaK 179(j) = 47mm/L43 AT gun Skoda A5, Yugoslavia (P.U.V. vz 36)

181 = 4,7cm PaK 181(f) = 47mm/L53 AT gun Canon de 47 antichar SA Atelier Puteaux mle. 1937, France
182 = 4,7cm PaK 182(f) = 47mm/L53 AT gun Canon de 47 antichar SA Atelier Puteaux mle. 1937/39 ?, France
183 = 4,7cm PaK 183(f) = 47mm/L53 AT gun Canon de 47 antichar SA Atelier Puteaux mle. 1939, France
(in different sourcies it is called mle. 1937/39).

184 = 4,5cm PaK 184(r) = 45mm/L46 AT gun M1932 (противотанковая пушка образца 1932 года, 19-К), USSR
4,5cm PaK 184/1(r) = 45mm/L46 AT gun M1937 (противотанковая пушка образца 1937 года), USSR
4,5cm KwK 184/2(r), /3(r), /4(r), /5(r) = 45mm/L46 tank gun M1932, M1934, M1934 with electrical primer and M1938 (танковая пушка обр. 1932, 1934, 1934 с электроспуском, 1938 гг., 20-К), USSR
= 4,5cm PaK 184/6(r) = 45mm/L46 AT gun M1941, USSR (tank gun M1932 г. on makeshift carriage, made in besieged Leningrad, 651 items; M1941 is an unofficial name)

185 = 4,7cm PaK 185(b) = 47mm/L33,6 AT gun Canon de 47 antichar SA-FRC Mle 1931, Belgium

186 = 4,5cm IG 186(r) = 45mm/L26 battalion howitzer M1929 (also known as "Lender model of small power) (батальонная гаубица образца 1929 года), USSR (build about 100 items)

187 = 4,7cm PaK 187(h) = 47mm/L32 AT gun 4,7cm Pantser Afweer Geschut (PAG) van 47, Holland (Austrian Böhler)

188 = 4,7cm PaK 188(h) = 47mm/L39 AT gun Siderius Kanon van 47, Holland (Austrian Böhler)

192 = 4cm PaK 192(e) = 40mm/L50 AT gun Ordnance QF 2 pdr on Carriage 2 pdr, UK

196 = 4,7cm PaK 196(r) = 47mm/L39,4 AT gun Mod.35B, USSR (Austrian Böhler, ex-Lithuanian army, 96 items in Red Army)

200 = 5cm GrW 200(r) = 50mm/L14,5 light mortar M1941 (ротный миномёт образца 1941 года), USSR

201 = 5cm GrW 201(b) = 50mm/L3,8 light mortar Lance grenades de 50 mm DBT, Belgium

202 = 5cm GrW 202(e) = 50,8mm/(L10,4?) light mortar Ordnance SBML 2-inch Mortar, UK
Another 202 = 5,7cm PaK 202(a) = 57mm AT gun M1, USA
Source: http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/tit ... 91/t/32674

203 = 5cm GrW 203(f) = 50mm/(L8,3?) light mortar Mortier de 50mm Mle1937, France

205 = 5cm GrW 205/1(r), 205/2(r), 205/3(r) = 50mm/L15,6 light mortar M1938, M1939, M1940 (ротный миномёт образца 1938, 1939, 1940 года), USSR (M1939 was not officialy used in Red Army)

208 = 5,7cm PaK 208(r) = 57mm/L73 AT gun ZIS-2 (противотанковая пушка ЗИС-2), USSR

209 = 5,7cm PaK 209(e) = 57mm/L43 AT gun Ordnance QF 6 pdr. Mk I, Mk IA, Mk II, Mk III, UK
Source: Waffen-arsenal 158, p. 38

210 = 5cm FestGrW 210(f) = 50mm mortar Mortier de 50mm mle 1935, France

216 = 6,5cm GebK 216(i) = 65mm/L17,7 mountain gun Cannone da 65/17 modello 13, Italy

217 = 6,5cm IG 217(i) = 65mm gun 65/22, Italy
Source: Kennblatter Fremden Gerats D 50/8b.
Version 1: captured France and Greece Mle 1906 (italian name Cannone da 65/18 PB)
Version 2: old Cannone da 65 Mod.1911


221 = 6,5cm GebK 221(f) = 65mm/L20 mountain gun Canon de 65 M(montagne) modele 1906 Schneider-Ducrest (65mm mle.1906), France

222 = 6,5cm GebK 222(j) = 65mm/L20 mountain gun Brdski top 65 mm. M. 6, Yugoslavia (France mle. 1906)

225 = 6cm GrW 225(f) = 60mm/(L12?) light mortar Mortier de 60 mm Mle1935, France

228 = 7,5cm GebK 228(b) = 75mm/L24 mountain gun Cockerill Canon de 75 modele 1934, Бельгия (Bofors system)

229 = 7,5cm GrW 229(j) = 75mm (or 78,5mm?) mortar М.16, Yugoslavia (old German Erhardt leMW 16/17)

231 = 7,5cm FK 231(f) = 75mm/L36 field gun Canon de 75 mle 1897, France

232 = 7,5cm FK 232(f) = 75mm/L36 field gun Canon de 75 mle 1897/1933, France

233 = 7,5cm FK 233(b) = 75mm/L35 field gun Canon de 75 GP I, Belgium

234 = 7,5cm FK 234(b) = 75mm/L37,4 field gun Canon de 75 mle GP II, Belgium

235 = 7,5cm FK 235(b) = 75mm/L30 field gun Canon de 75 mle TR (Krupp M.05 system), Belgium

236 = 7,5cm FK 236(b) = 75mm/L37,3 field gun Canon de 75 mle GP III, Бельгия

237 = 7,5cm FK 237(i) = 75mm/L27 field gun Cannone da 75/27 modello 06 (Krupp M.06 system), Italy
Another 237 = 7,5cm GebK 237(f) = 75mm/L18,6 mountain gun Canon de 75 M(montagne) modele 1919 Schneider (75mm mle.1919), France
Source: Kennblatter Fremden Gerats D 50/8b.

238 = 7,5cm GebK 238(f) = 75mm/L18,6 mountain gun Canon de 75 M(montagne) modele 1909 Schneider (76mm mle.09), France

239 = 7,5cm FK 239(j) = 75mm gun M4 Krupp, Yugoslavia

240 = 7,5cm FK 240(d) = 75mm/L30 field gun feltkanon h.S.K. 03 L/30 (Krupp system), Denmark

241 = 7,5cm FK 241(h) = 75mm field gun Stuk van 7 Veld, Holland
Source: http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/inde ... Itemid=613
242 = 7,5cm FK 242(h) = 75mm field gun Stuk van 7 Veld OM 4, Holland
Source: http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/inde ... Itemid=613

243 = 7,5cm FK 243(h) = 75mm/L30 field gun Stuk van 7 Veld Siderjus M.02.04 (Krupp M.02 system), Holland

244 = 7,5cm FK 244(i) = 75mm/L28,4 field gun Cannone da 75/27 modello 11 (Deport system), Italy

245 = 7,5cm leFK 245(i) = 75mm/L30 field gun Cannone da 75/27 modello 12 (modified Krupp modello 06), Italy

246 = 7,5cm FK 246(n) = 75mm/L31 field gun 7,5cm Feltkanon M/01 Erhardt, Norway

247 = 7,5cm GebK 247(n) = 75mm/L17 mountain gun 7,5cm BK M/11 Ehrhardt, Norway (maybe also m/1919 and и m/1924)

248 = 7,5cm FK 248(i) = 75mm/L34 field gun Cannone Da 75/32 Modello 37 Ansaldo, Italy

249 = 7,5cm FK 249(j) = 75mm/L25,4 field gun пољски топ M12 Schneider, Yugoslavia

250 = 7,62cm FK 250(r) = 76,2mm/L30,5 tank gun M1938 on field carriage
Source: P.Chamberlain, T.Gander. Light and medium field artillery (WW2 Fact Files series). 1975
Version: I found no data about such gun in Russian sourcies. Maybe a makeshift field guns built in army repair factory


251 = 7,5cm KwK 251(f) = 75mm/L17 tank gun SA35, France (used on Renault B1)

254 = 7,5cm FK 254(i) = 75mm/L20,7 field gun Obice da 75/18 modello 34 Ansaldo, Italy

255 = 7,5cm leFH 255(i) = 75mm/L20,7 light howitzer Obice da 75/18 modello 35 Ansaldo, Italy

257 = 7,5cm FK 257(i) = 75mm/L30 field gun Cannone da 75/27 modello 06, Italy (the same as 237(i)??)
Source: P.Chamberlain, T.Gander. Light and medium field artillery (WW2 Fact Files series). 1975

258 = 7,5cm GebK 258(j) = 75mm/L18 mountain gun Skoda М28, Yugoslavia

259 = 7,5cm GebK 259(i) = 75mm/L15 mountain gun Obice da 75/13 (Skoda M.15), Italy
= 7,5cm GebK 259(j) = 75mm/L15,4 mountain gun Brdski top 75mm. M.15 (Skoda M.15), Yugoslavia

260 = 7,6cm IG 260(b) = 76mm/L9,2 infantry gun Mortier d'accompagnement de 76 mm FRC, Belgium

261 = 7,6cm FK 261(e) = 76,2mm/L24 gun Ordnance QF 13-pounder Mk II or Mk III ?, UK

264 = 7,5cm FlaK 264(i) = 75mm/L46 AA gun Ansaldo, Italy
= 7,5cm FlaK 264/3(i) = 75mm AA gun Canone antiaereo da 75/46 M 34, Italy
= 7,5cm FlaK 264/4(i) = 75mm AA gun Canone antiaereo da 75/46 M 40, Italy (same gun but for static use)

266 = 7,62cm FlaK 266(i) = 76,2mm/L41 AA gun Breda (based on naval Armstrong M1897), Italy
= 7,62cm FlaK 266/1(i) = 76,2mm AA gun Canone da 76/40 CA, Italy
= 7,62cm FlaK 266/2(i) = 76,2mm/L41 AA gun Canone da 76/40 modificato 35, Italy
= 7,62cm FlaK 266/3(i) = 76,2mm AA gun Canone da 76/45 CA, Italy

267 = 7,5cm FK 267(g) = 75mm field gun Krupp M1904 (М.1905?), Greece
OR - as shown here (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=158435&start=30) = 75mm/L31 "Field Gun 17", UK = ex-US М1917


270 = 8,14cm GrW 270(j) = 81mm/L15,6 mortar Brandt 8.1cm MWM 31/38 Kragvjewac, Yugoslavia
= 270/1(j) = 81mm/L13,7 short mortar Brandt 8.1cm MWM 31/38 Kragvjewac, Yugoslavia

271 = 8,38cm FK 271(e) = 83,8mm/L29 field gun QF 18 pr Mk I-II on carriageMk II PA, UK

272 = 8,38cm FK 272(e) = 83,8mm/L29 field gun QF 18 pr Mk IV on MKs III T, III TR, IV and IV R Field carraige, UK

273 = 8,38cm FK 273(e) = 83,8mm/L29 field gun QF 18 pr Mk IV on Marks V and VR field carriages, UK

274 = 8,2cm GrW 274/1(r) = 82mm/L15 mortar M1936 (батальонный миномёт образца 1936 года), USSR
= 8,2cm GrW 274/2(r) = 82mm/L15 mortar M1937, USSR
= 8,2cm GrW 274/3(r) = 82mm/L15 mortar M1941, USSR
= 8,2cm GrW 274/4(r) = 82mm/L15 mortar M1943, USSR (not 100%!)

275 = 8,14cm GrW 275(d) = 81,4mm/L15,6 mortar fodfolksmorter M. 1931 (Brandt system), Denmark

276 = 8,14cm GrW 276(i) = 81,4mm/L14,2 mortar mortero da 81/14 M 35 (Brandt system), Italy

278 = 8,14cm GrW 278(f) = 81,4mm/L15,6 mortar Mortier de 81 mle 27/31 longue Brandt, France
= 8,14cm GrW 278/1(f) = 81,4mm/L13,7 mortar Mortier de 81 mle 27/31 courte Brandt, France

279 = 8,14cm GrW 279(h) = 81mm mortar Brandt, Holland
Source: Hogg I. German Artillery of World War Two. 2002. P. 294. On Google Books

280 = 8,76(8,8)cm FK 280(e) = 87,6mm/L28 Ordnance QF 25 pdr Mk II on Carriage 25 pdr, UK

281 = 8,76(8,8)cm FK 281(e) = 87,6mm/L28 Ordnance QF 25 pdr Mk I on carriage Mk IVp, UK

282 = 8,76(8,8)cm FK 282(e) = 87,6mm/L28 Ordnance QF 25 pdr Mk I on carriage Mk Vp, UK

283 = 7,5cm GebK 283(j) = 75mm/L18,6 mountain gun (Schneider Mle 1919), Yugoslavia

284 = 7,5cm FK 284(j) = 75mm gun Schneider М7, Yugoslavia

285 = 7,5cm GebK 285(j) = 75mm/L18 mountain gun Brdski top 75mm. M.28 и M.28A (Skoda M.28 and M.28A), Yugoslavia
= 7,5cm GebK 285(i) = 75mm/L18 mountain gun Obice da 75/15 Mod. 28 PB, Italy (ex-Yugoslavian gun captured by Italy in 1941)

286 = 8,14cm GrW 286(h) = 81mm/L15,6 mortar mortier van 8 Brandt (M.27/31), Holland

287 = 8,5cm KH 287(g) = 85mm/L34,8 howitzer-gun Schneider М1927, Greece

288 = 7,62cm FK 288(r) and 288/1(r) = 76,2mm/L42 field gun ZIS-3 (дивизионная пушка ЗИС-3), USSR

289 = 7,62cm IG 289(r) = 76,2mm/L16,5 gun M1910 (образца 1910 года), USSR

290 = 7,62cm IKH 290(r) and 290/1(r) = 76,2mm/L16,4 infantry gun M1927 and M1927/39 (полковая пушка образца 1927 и 1927/39 года), USSR
= 7,62cm KwK 290/1(r) = 76,2mm/L16,4 tank gun M1927/32 (танковая пушка образца 1927/32 года, КТ), USSR
Source: Kennblatter Fremden Gerats D 50/8b

291 = 7,62cm GebK 291(r) = ?, USSR
Version: 76,2mm mountain gun M1904 or short gun M1913
292 = 7,62cm GebK 292(r) = ?, USSR
Version: 76,2mm mountain gun M1904 or short gun M1913

293 = 7,62cm GebK 293(r) = 76,2mm/L16,5 mountain gun M1909 (горная пушка образца 1909 года), USSR

294 = 7,62cm leFK 294(r) = 76,2mm/L30 field gun M1902 (дивизионная пушка образца 1902 года), USSR (unmodified)

295 = 7,62cm FK 295/1(r) = 76,2mm/L30 gun M1902/30, USSR
= 7,62cm FK 295/2(r) = 76,2mm/L40 gun M1902/30, USSR

296 = 7,62cm FK 296(r) = 76,2mm/L51 gun M1936 (дивизионная пушка образца 1936 года, Ф-22), USSR

297 = 7,62cm FK 297(r) = 76,2mm/L42 gun M1939 (дивизионная пушка образца 1939 года, Ф-22УСВ, УСВ), USSR

298 = 7,62cm FK 298(r) = 76,2mm/L50 gun M1933 (дивизионная пушка образца 1933 года, Ф-22), USSR (build about 200 items)

299 = 7,62cm LG 299(r) [another index Rf.G 299(r)] = 76,2mm/L36,6 recoilless gun DRP (безоткатная пушка ДРП), USSR (L. Kurchevsky system)

So much... :)
Last edited by Grigoriy on 12 Aug 2011 10:01, edited 1 time in total.
With best wishes
Grigoriy

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Grigoriy
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Re: Beute numbers

Post by Grigoriy » 11 Aug 2011 18:50

Continue with 300s.

300 = 7,65cm FK 300(j) = 76,5mm/L30 field gun Skoda M.05/08, Yugoslavia

301 = 9,4cm GebH 301(e) = 94mm howitzer QF 95mm Mk I on carriage Mk IVP, UK

302 = 9,4cm IKH 302(e) = 94mm/L12,6 mountain and infantry howitzer, UK

303 = 7,65cm FK 303(j) = 76,5mm/L30 field gun M.17 Skoda, Yugoslavia

304 = 7,65cm FK 304(j) = 76,5mm/L40 universal (field-mountain-AA) gun M.28 Skoda, Yugoslavia
Source: P.Chamberlain, T.Gander. Light and medium field artillery (WW2 Fact Files series). 1975
As said in: viewtopic.php?f=70&t=113382, it was 75mm, not 76,5mm


305 = 8,38cm FK 305(r) = 83,8mm field gun 18-pounder Mk V, USSR (former Latvian army, purchased from UK)

307 = 7,62cm GebK 307(r) = 76,2mm/L21,4 mountain gun M1938 (горная пушка образца 1938 г.), USSR (modified Skoda M.36)

309 = 9cm FlaK 309/1(i) = 90mm AA gun Cannone da 90/53 Ansaldo, Italy (the same as 9cm FlaK 41(i))
Source: http://www.comandosupremo.com/Cannone9053.html
Another 309 = 9cm GrW 309(j) = 90mm mortar M.17 (Skoda MW M.1917), Yugoslavia
Source: viewtopic.php?t=109888

310 = 7,62cm KwK 310(r) = 76,2mm/L30 tank gun M1938/39 (танковая пушка образца 1938/39 г., Л-11), USSR
Source: Kennblatter Fremden Gerats D 50/8b
= 7,62cm K 310/2(r) auf Kasemattlafette 39 = 76,2mm/L30 fortress gun (казематная пушка Л-17), USSR (the same barrel as M1938/39, used on fortress mounting)
Source: Kennblatter Fremden Gerats D 50/8b

312 = 7,5cm GebK 312(a) = ?, USA

313 = 7,5cm GebK 313(a) = ?, USA
Version: range 8,4 km, so it can be 75mm mountain gun Pack Howitzer M1

315 = 10cm leFH 315(j) = 100mm/L19 howitzer Skoda M.14, Yugoslavia
= 10cm leFH 315(i) = 100mm/L19,3 howitzer Skoda Obice da 100/17 Modello 14, Italy

316 = 10cm leFH 316(j) = 100mm/L24 howitzer Skoda M.16 or M.14/19, Yugoslavia
Source: M.14/19 - P.Chamberlain, T.Gander. Light and medium field artillery (WW2 Fact Files series). 1975
= 10cm GebH 316(i) = 100mm/L18,4 mountain howitzer Obice da 100/17 modello 16 (Skoda M.16), Italy

317 = 10cm leFH 317(j) = 100mm/L25 howitzer Skoda M.28, Yugoslavia

318 = 10cm leFH 318(g) = 100mm/L24 howitzer Skoda обр. 14/19, Greece

320 = 10,5cm FK 320(i) = 105mm/L35 gun Cannone da 105/32 (Skoda М.15), Italy (ex-Austro-Hungary 104mm gun, rebored for 105mm ammo)
Source: P.Chamberlain, T.Gander. Light and medium field artillery (WW2 Fact Files series). 1975

321 = 10,5cm K 321(j) = 105mm gun Skoda M 15/26, Yugoslavia
Source: viewtopic.php?t=109888
Another 312 = 10,5cm K 321(d) = 105mm/L48,1 gun 10? cm feltkanon L/48 F.K.N. M.30, Denmark (Schneider gun, long 105mm barrel on carriage from 155mm Mle 1929 howitzer)
Source: P.Chamberlain, T.Gander. Light and medium field artillery (WW2 Fact Files series). 1975
and http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php?p=233927


322 = 10,5cm leGebH 322(f) = 105mm/L12,4 mountain howitzer Canon Court de 105 M(montagne) modele 1919 Schneider (105mm mle.19), France

323 = 10,5cm leGebH 323(f) = 105mm/L12,4 mountain howitzer Canon Court de 105 M(montagne) modele 1928 Schneider (105mm mle.28), France

324 = 10,5cm leFH 324(f) = 105mm/L20 (or 23,8 ?) howitzer Canon de 105mm court Mle1934 S (Schneider), France

325 = 10,5cm leFH 325(f) = 105mm/L16,8 mountain howitzer Canon de 105mm court Mle1935 B (Atelier Bourges), France

326 = 10,5cm leFH 326(i) = 105mm/L14 howitzer Obice 105/14 Ansaldo, Italy

327 = 10,5cm leFH 327(b) = 105mm/L22 howitzer Obusier de 105 GP, Belgium (ex-German leFH 16)

328 = 10,7cm GebGrW 328(r) = 107mm/L14,6 mountain mortar M1938 (горно-вьючный миномёт образца 1938 г.), USSR

329 = 10,5cm leGebH 329(j) = 105mm/L12,4 mountain howitzer, Yugoslavia (France 105 mle.19)

330 = 10,5cm K 330(i) = 105mm/L28 gun Schneider Cannone 105/28, Italy (France Canon de 105 mle 1913)

331 = 10,5cm K 331(f) = 105mm/L28,4 gun Canon de 105 mm mle 1913 Schneider L 135, France

332 = 10,5cm K 332(f) = 105mm/L37,6 gun Canon de 105 mle 1936 Schneider обр. 1936 г., France

333 = 10,5cm K 333(b) = 105mm/L28 gun Canon de 105 mm Mle 1913, Belgium (France 105mm gun Mle 1913)

334 = 10,5cm FK 334(h) = 105mm/L40 gun 10 veld M30 (27 Staal Bofors), Holland
OR: FK 334(h) - 105mm gun Krupp 105mm L/30

Source: viewtopic.php?f=70&t=140714&start=15

335 = 10,5cm FK 335(h) = 105mm/L40 и L42 gun 10 veld M30, Holland

336 = 10,5cm FK 336(i) = 105mm gun Cannone da 105/40 mod. 43 (42?), Italy

337 = 10,5cm K 337(n) = 105mm/L31 gun Mobil posisjonskanon m/01 (Schneider) and m/04 (Cockerill), Norway

338 = 10,5cm FK 338(j) = 105mm/L28,4 gun, Yugoslavia (France Schneider Mle 1913)
= 10,5cm FK 338(i) = 105mm/L28,4 gun Cannone da 105/27 modello 912/913, Italy (France Schneider Mle 1913)

339 = 10,5cm K 339(j) = 105mm/L42 gun M.36 Skoda, Yugoslavia

340 = 10,5cm K 340(g)/(j) = 105mm/L30,8 gun Schneider М1927, Greece and/or Yugoslavia (France Canon de 105 mm Mle 25/27)
Source: viewtopic.php?t=109888

341 = 7,5cm FK 341/1(a) = ?, USA

342 = 7,5cm FK 342/1(a) = ?, USA

343 = 10,5cm GebH 343(f) = 105mm mountain howitzer Canon Court de 105 M(montagne) modele 1909 Schneider (105mm mle.1909), France

344 = 7,5cm FK 344(a) = ?, USA

345 = 7,5cm FK 345(a) = ?, USA

346 = 7,5cm FK 346(a) = ?, USA

348 = 10,5cm K 348(r) = 105mm/L23,6 gun Vickers M22, USSR
Source: according to P.Chamberlain, T.Gander. Light and medium field artillery (WW2 Fact Files series). 1975, these are UK-build guns of former Lithuanian and Estonian amries. But no source on Baltic states armies mention Vickers M22. Also materials on Vickers M22 say that is was exported only to Spain. So it is a mystery.

349 = 10,5cm K 349(r) = 105mm gun, USSR
Source: "08/10 Kp: In 1908 Russia bought a batch of 10.7cm guns from Krupps which entered Russian service as the 08/10 Kp (Krupp 10.7 cm K 08/10). In 1941, there were still some of these elderly weapons in use with various second-line units. Cal: 106.7 L30. Max Rng: 9,500m. Shell Wt: 16.4kg". P.Chamberlain, T.Gander. Heavy Artillery (WW2 Fact Files series). 1975.
Version: two main sourcies on Russian artillery of the 1910s - "Artillery of Russian army" by E. Barsukov and "History of Russian artillery" by A. Shirokorad - do not mention such a purchaise. But in 1914-15 Russia bought in Japan a party of 105mm Krupp guns (and in 1916 - a larger party of 107mm, specially build for Russia). Maybe this is the answer.


350 = 10,7cm K 350(r) = 107mm gun, USSR
351 = 10,7cm K 351(r) = 107mm gun, USSR

Version: these may be Japan-build Krupp guns purchaised in 1916 (see Version on 349) or may be old 107mm (9-pounder) guns M1877.

352 = 10,7cm K 352(r) = 107mm/L38 gun M1910/30 (пушка образца 1910/30 года), USSR

353 = 10,7cm K 353(r) = 107mm/L43 gun M1940 (пушка образца 1940 года, М-60), USSR

360 = 10,5cm leFH 360(a) = ?, USA
Version: range 11,0 km, so it can be 105mm howitzer Howitzer M2

361 = 11,4cm leFH 361(e) = 114mm/L13,4 howitzer QF 4,5 inch Howitzer Mk II on Carriage Mk IP, UK

362 = 11,4cm leFH 362(r) = 114mm/L13,4 howitzer, USSR (ex-UK 4,5 inch Mk II, purchaised in 1915-17, and Mk IV, form former Latvian army)
Source: in WarMachine #115, p. 2287, Soviet 114mm howitzer is called leFH 363(r), not 362(r).

365 = 11,4cm K 365(e) = 114mm/L46 gun 4.5 inch Gun Mark I on Carriage 60pdr Mark IV or IVP, UK

370 = 12cm K 370(b) = 120mm/L37 gun Canon de 120 L mle 1931 Cockerill, Belgium

371 = 12cm K 371(f) = 120mm/L27 gun Canon de 120 mm Long mle 1878 и 1878/16 'de Bange', France
Source: Kennblatter Fremden Gerats D 50/8b

373 = 12cm leFH 373(h) = 120mm/L14 howitzer Lichte Houwitser lang 14 (12 hw lang 14) Bofors, Holland

375 = 12cm leFH 375(n) = 120mm/L20 howitzer felthaubits m/1909, Norway (Rheinmetall 12cm leFH 08)

376 = 12cm leFH 376(n) = 120mm/L14 howitzer felthaubits m/1915 (or m/1913?), Norway (Kongsberg)

377 = 12cm leFH 377(j) = 120mm howitzer Schneider М15 or M11, Yugoslavia

378 = 12cm GrW 378(r) = 120mm/L15,5 mortar M1938 (полковой миномёт образца 1938 года), USSR

379 = 12cm GrW 379(r) = 120mm/L15,5 mortar M1940 (полковой миномёт образца 1940 года), USSR

381 = 12,7cm K 381(e) = ?, UK

382 = 12,7cm K 382(e) = 127mm/L33,6 gun BL 60 pdr Mk II, UK

385 = 12,2cm leFH 385(r) = 122mm howitzer 09/30, USSR
Version: what are 385(r) and 387(r) is unclear. Howitzer M1909 was modernised only in 1937, not in 1930.

386 = 12,2cm leFH 386(r) = 122mm/L14 howitzer M1909/37 (дивизионная гаубица образца 1909/37 года), USSR

387 = 12,2cm leFH 387(r) = 122mm howitzer 09/30, USSR
Version: what are 385(r) and 387(r) is unclear. Howitzer M1909 was modernised only in 1937, not in 1930.

388 = 12,2cm leFH 388(r) = 122mm/L12,8 howitzer M1910/30 (дивизионная гаубица образца 1910/30 года), USSR

390 = 12,2cm K 390/1(r) = 122mm/L46 gun M1931 (пушка образца 1931 года, А-19), USSR
= 12,2cm K 390/2(r) = 122mm/L46 gun M1931/37 (пушка образца 1931/37 года), USSR

392 = 12cm K 392(a) = ?, USA

393 = 12,2 cm Küstenkanone 393(r) = ?, USSR
Version: there was no special 122mm coastal gun in USSR. But two 120(!)mm guns were used in large numbers: L45 Canet system and L50 Vickers-Obukhov system. Maybe here is a mistake in caliber.

396 = 12,2cm sFH 396(r) = 122mm/L22,7 howitzer M1938 (гаубица образца 1938 года, М-30), USSR

397 = 12cm K 397(a) = ?, USA

----
If it is useful I will continue. If not — simply tell me to stop and I'll stop it. :)
Last edited by Grigoriy on 12 Aug 2011 07:55, edited 1 time in total.
With best wishes
Grigoriy

jopaerya
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Re: 6 inch Mk XIX and other British 6-inch in Wehrmacht?

Post by jopaerya » 11 Aug 2011 19:27

Hi Grigoriy

I like your list 8O , but please make a new thread with the Beute numbers .

Regards Jos

Clive Mortimore
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Posts: 1247
Joined: 06 Jun 2009 22:38

Re: 6 inch Mk XIX and other British 6-inch in Wehrmacht?

Post by Clive Mortimore » 11 Aug 2011 21:28

jopaerya wrote:Hi Grigoriy

I like your list 8O , but please make a new thread with the Beute numbers .

Regards Jos


Hi Jos and all

An exellent idea, I have asked Christoph of the admin team to move them to a new thread.

Clive
Clive

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Grigoriy
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Posts: 61
Joined: 08 Aug 2011 05:44

Re: Beute numbers

Post by Grigoriy » 12 Aug 2011 07:22

Hi Jos and Clive

Then I'll continue when it will be a new thread. :) My thanks!
With best wishes
Grigoriy

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Grigoriy
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Posts: 61
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Re: Beute numbers

Post by Grigoriy » 12 Aug 2011 09:37

All right, let's continue! :)

400s

400 = 15cm sFH 400(i) = 149mm/L14 howitzer Obice da 149/12 M-14 Skoda, Italy

401 = 15cm sFH 401(i) = 149mm/L14,1 howitzer Obice da 149/13 Skoda, Italy
= 15cm sFH 401(j) = 149mm howitzer Skoda M.14, Yugoslavia

402 = 15cm sFH 402(j) = 149mm/L27 howitzer Skoda M.36S, Yugoslavia (Skoda houfnice vzor 1933, K1)

403 = 15cm K 403(j) = 15см/L46,8 gun Skoda M.28, Yugoslavia (on static mounting)

404 = 15cm sFH 404(i) = 149mm/L20,2 howitzer Obice da 149/19 M-37 Ansaldo, Italy

405 = 14,5cm K 405(f) = 145mm/L50,8 gun Canon mle 1916 St. Chamond, France

406 = 15cm sFH 406(h) = 15см/L17 howitzer Круппа 15 hw lang 17, Holland (ex- German sFH 13)

407 = 15,2cm sFH 407(h) = 152mm/L14,6 howitzer Houwitser 15 hw lang 15 Vickers, Holland (UK-purchaised BL 6 inch MK I)

408 = 15cm K 408(i) = 149mm/L40 gun Cannona da 149/40 M-35 Ansaldo, Italy

409 = 15cm sFH 409(b) = 15см/L17 howitzer Obusier lourde de 150 mm Mle 1913, Belgium (ex-German sFH 13)

410 = 15cm K 410(i) = 15см/L40 gun Canone da 152/37 Skoda M 1915/16, Italy

? 411 = 15,2cm sFH 411(e) = ?, UK
Source: viewtopic.php?f=70&t=147564&start=0
Another 411 = 15,2cm K 411(i) = 152mm gun Cannone da 152/45 M 17, Italy
Source: Kennblatter Fremden Gerats D 50/8b

412 = 15,2cm sFH 412(e) = 152mm/L14,6 howitzer Vickers 6inch Mk I BL 26cwt, UK
= 15,2cm sFH 412(i) = 152mm/L14,6 howitzer Obice da 152/13, Italy (Vickers Mk I)
= 15,2cm sFH 412(f) = 152mm/L14,6 howitzer, France (Vickers Mk I)
= 15,2cm sFH 412(b) = 152mm howitzer Obusier de 6", Belgium ( (Vickers Mk I)
Version: sFH 410(b) - look like a mistake
Version: Vickers 6inch was also used by USSR (85 items in Red Army in 1941). So there could be sFH 412(r) also.


413 = 15,5cm sFH 413(b) = 155mm/L15,3 howitzer Obusier lourde de 155 mm Mle 1917, Belgium (France Mle. 1917)

414 = 15,5cm sFH 414(f) = 155mm/L15,3 howitzer Canon de 155 C mle 1917 Schneider, France
= 15,5cm sFH 414(g) = 155mm/L15,3 howitzer M.17, Greece (France Mle. 1917)
= 15,5cm sFH 414(i) = 155mm/L15,3 howitzer Obice da 155/14 М 17, Italy (France Mle. 1917)

415 = 15,5cm sFH 415(f) = 155mm/L18 howitzer Canon de 155 C M-15 Saint Chamond Mle. 1915, France

416 = 15,5cm K 416(f) = 155mm/L32 gun Canon de 155 L Schneider mle 1917, France
= 15,5cm K 416(b) = 155mm/L32 gun Schneider mle 1917, Belgium - see also 431(b)!

417 = 15,5cm K 417(f) = 155mm/L38,7 gun Canon de 155 GPF-CA, France

418 = 15,5cm K 418(f) = 155mm/L38,2 gun Canon de 155 mm Grand Puissance Filloux (GPF), France

419 = 15,5cm K 419(f) = 155mm/L38,2 gun Canon de 155 mm Grand Puissance Filloux (GPF) (GPF-Touzzard), France

420 = 15,5cm K 420(f) = 155mm/L49,2 gun Canon de 155 L Saint Chamond mle 1916, France
= 15,5cm K 420(i) = 155mm/L49,2 gun, Italy (France L Mle 1916)

421 = 15,5cm K 421(f) = 155mm/L27 gun Canon de 155 mm Long mle 1877 'de Bange', France
Source: Kennblatter Fremden Gerats D 50/8b

422 = 15,5cm K 422(f) = 155mm/L26,5 gun Canon de 155 L mle 77/14 Schneider, France
= 15,2cm K 422(r) = 152mm gun M1877, USSR
Version: there were two models of 152mm Russian guns M1877 and also a France 155mm gun Mle 1877 purchaised in WWI.

424 = 15,5cm K 424(f) = 155mm/L55 gun Canon de 155 L mle 32 Schneider, France

425 = 15,5cm K 425(f) = 155mm/L26,3 gun Canon de 155 L mle 18 Schneider, France

427 = 15,5cm sFH 427/1(j) и 427/2(j) = 155mm howitzer Schneider Mle 1917 and Mle 1915, Yugoslavia

429 = 15,0cm K 429(b) = 15см/L43 gun Canone lourde de 150 mm Mle 1916, Belgium (ex-German K 16)

431 = 15,5cm K 431(b) = 155mm/L32 gun Canon lourde de 150 Mle 1917, Belgium (France Canon de 155 L M-17 Schneider) - see also 416(b)!

432 = 15,5cm K 432(b) = 155mm/L30,4 gun Canone lourde de 155 mm Cockerill Mle 1924, Belgium
Version: these guns are rebuild ex-German 13,5cm K 09 (viewtopic.php?f=70&t=97577&hilit=bones&start=15) or ex-German 15cm K 13 (http://www.juniorgeneral.org/donated/20 ... heavy2.png)

433 = 15,2cm KH 433/1(r) = 152,4mm/L29 gun-howitzer M1937 (пушка-гаубица образца 1937 года, МЛ-20), USSR
= 15,2cm K 433/2(r) = 152,4mm/L29 gun M1910/34 (пушка образца 1910/34 года), USSR

435 = 15,2cm K 435(r) = 152mm gun M1910, USSR
Source: http://www.juniorgeneral.org/forums/vie ... &start=210
Version: according to Russian books all 152mm M1910 guns were modernised in 1910/30 and 1910/34 version. Maybe another German intellegence mistake.


436 = 15,2cm K 436(e) = 152mm gun 6 inch Mk XIX on Carriage Mk VIII, UK (in KFG D50/5 it is called "6 inch Gun Mk VIII").
Source: viewtopic.php?t=180793

437 = 15,2cm K 437(e) = 152mm experimental Vickers gun (Mk VII or Mk XXIV barrel on Mk VIII carriage), UK (in KFG D50/5 it is called "6 inch Gun 30").
Source: viewtopic.php?t=180793

438 = 15,2cm K 438(r) = 152mm/L29 gun M1910/30 (пушка образца 1910/30 года), USSR (it was on old carriage, and M1910/34 used carriage of 122mm A-19 gun)
Source: Kennblatter Fremden Gerats D 50/8b

440 = 15,2cm K 440(r) = 152mm/L47,1 gun M1935 (пушка образца 1935 года, БР-2), USSR

443 = 15,2cm sFH 443(r) = 152,4mm/L24,3 howitzer M1938 (гаубица образца 1938 года, М-10), USSR

445 = 15,2cm sFH 445(r) = 152,4mm/L14 howitzer M1909/30 (гаубица образца 1909/30 года), USSR

446 = 15,2cm sFH 446(r) = 152,4mm/L12 howitzer M1910/37 (гаубица образца 1910/37 года), USSR

449 = 15,5cm sFH 449(i) = 155mm howitzer Obice de 155/14 PB, Italy (ex-French Mle 1917, taken in 1940)
= 15,2cm sFH 449(r) = 152mm howitzer 152-17S, USSR
Source: P.Chamberlain, T.Gander. Heavy Artillery (WW2 Fact Files series). 1975 and "Artillery of WWII" by Steve Crawford, Chris Chant. It is described as France Mle 1917 rebored in USSR for 152mm. No Russian book tell about such a modernisation, so it is a question.

450 = 15,2cm KwH 450(r) = 152mm tank howitzer M1938/40 (танковая гаубица образца 1938/40 года, М-10Т), USSR (used on KV-2)
Source: Kennblatter Fremden Gerats D 50/8b

453 = 16,4cm K(E) 453(f) = 164mm/L45 railway gun Cannon de 164 M 93/96 sur affût tous azimut, France
454 = 16,4cm K(E) 454(f) = 164mm/L45 railway gun Cannon de 164 M 93/96 sur affût tous azimut, France
Source: in: viewtopic.php?f=70&t=174392 is said that 453(f) is M 93, and 454(f) is M 93/96

? 455 = 15,2cm H(E) 455(r) = 152,4mm railway howitzer M1937, USSR
Version: there was no such gun in Red Army. It may be an intellegence mistake.
Another 455 = 18cm H(E) 455(r) = 180mm railway howitzer M1938, USSR
Source: http://www.slcmaquettes.com/nouveau_fichier84.html (now inactive!)
Version: there was no 180mm howitzer at all, but there was 180mm railway gun TM-1-180.


456 = 15,2cm Küstenkanone 456 (r) = 152,4mm coastal gun M 04, USSR
Version: this may be 152mm/L45 Canet naval and coastal gun. But then it is wrong with year: Canet gun was used from 1891 in Russian Navy and from 1895 in coastal defence.

461 = 15,0cm K 461(d) = 15см/L22 gun M-29 L/22 S, Denmark (France Obusier M-29)
Another version: http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/inde ... Itemid=552 call it 149mm/L17 felthaubits L/17 S.H. M. 1923 (Bofors).

469 = 15,5cm K 469(d) = 155mm gun model M-29 L/22 S, Denmark
Another version: http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/inde ... Itemid=552 call it 155mm/L22 felthaubits L/22 S.H. M. 1929 (Schneider).

481 = 15,2cm sK 481(a) = ?, USA

483 = 15,2cm K 483(r) = ?, USSR

485 = 19,4cm K 485(f) = 194mm/L33,9 gun Canon de 194 mm GPF, France
485/585 = 19,4cm K 485/585(f) = same gun on carriage 27cm Mrs. 585(f), France
= 19,4cm K 485(f) auf Selbstfahrlafette = same gun on self-moving carriage

486 = 19,4cm K(E) 486(f) = 194mm/L30,4 railway gun Cannon de 194 M 70/93 sur affut tous azimuts, France
= 19,4cm K 486(f) = same gun used on static mounting

487 = 15,5cm sK 487(a) = ?, USA

488 = 15,5cm sK 488(a) = ?, USA
Version: range 23,7 km, so look like 155mm gun Gun M1 Long Tom

489 = 15,5cm sK 489(a) = ?, USA

492 = 15,5cm sFH 492(a) = ?, USA
Version: range 11,5 km, so look like 155mm howitzer Howitzer M1918

493 = 15,5cm sFH 493(a) = ?, USA
Version: range 15 km, so look like 155mm howitzer Howitzer M1

---
To be continued...
With best wishes
Grigoriy

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Grigoriy
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Re: Beute numbers

Post by Grigoriy » 12 Aug 2011 09:45

And the last part - 500s-800s.

501 = 20,3cm sH 501(e) = 203mm/L16 howitzer 8inch Howitzer Mk VI on Mk VI carriage, UK
Source: War Machine #56, p.1109

502 = 20,3cm sH 502(r) = 203mm/L16 howitzer Vickers Mk VI, USSR

503 = 20,3cm H 503(r) and 503/1(r) = 203mm/L22 and L25 howitzer M1931 (гаубица образца 1931 года, Б-4ММ и Б-4), USSR

520 = 21cm H 520(i) = 210mm/L23,8 howitzer Obice da 210/22 modello 35, Italy

521 = 21cm K 521(r) = 210mm/L49,6 gun (210мм пушка БР-17), USSR (Skoda M-39)

522 = 17,8cm sK 522(a) = ?, USA
Version: 178mm/L45 7-inch Track-propelled Gun M1918

523 = 20,3cm Mrs 523/1 and 523/2(a) = 203mm/L15,9 howitzer 8inch Field Howitzer M17, USA (UK Mark VI)

524 = 20,3cm Mrs 524(a) = ?, USA

527 = 20,3cm Mrs 527(a) = ?, USA
Version: range 17 km, so look like 203mm howitzer 8inch Howitzer M1

530 = 22cm Mrs 530(b) = 220mm/L10,3 Mortier lourde de 220 mm Mle 1916 TR, Belgium (France T.R. mle 1916)

531 = 22cm Mrs 531(f) = 220mm/L10,3 Schneider T.R. mle 1916, France

532 = 22cm K 532(f) = 220mm/L34,87 gun Canon de 220 L Schneider mle 1917, France

533 = 20,3cm K(E) 533(a) = 203mm/L32 (or L35?) railway gun M1888 on railway mounting 8 inch M1918М1, USA
Source: http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/inde ... Itemid=613

537 = 24cm K(E) 537(f) = 240mm/L28 railway gun Mle 1884/1917, France

538 = 22cm Mrs 538(j) = 220mm/L19 howitzer M.28 Skoda, Yugoslavia

545 = 23,4cm H 545(b) = 234mm howitzer Obusier de 9,2", Belgium (UK BL 9.2 inch Howitzer MkII)

546 = 23,4cm H 546(e) = 234mm/L18,5 howitzer BL 9.2 inch Howitzer MkII, UK

548 = 23,4cm H 548(r) = 234mm howitzer Vickers, USSR (purchaised from UK in 1917)

550 = 23,4cm H 550/1(a) = 234mm howitzer M 1917 Mk 1, USA (UK BL 9.2 in Mk I)
Source: http://www.slcmaquettes.com/nouveau_fichier84.html (now inactive!)

556 = 24cm K 556(f) = 240mm/L29,2 gun Canon de 240 mm L mle 84/17 St.Chamond, France
= 24cm K(E) 556(f) = same gun on railway mounting

557 = 24cm K(E) 557(f) = 240mm/L29,2 railway gun Cannon de 240 sur affut M 84, France
= 24cm K(E) 557/1(f) = 240mm/L29,2 railway gun Cannon de 240 sur affut M 17, France

558 = 24cm K(E) 558(f) = 240mm/L41,9 railway gun Cannon de 240 sur affut M 93/96, France

559 = 24cm K 559(f) = ?
Another 559: 24cm K 559(r) = ?.
There was no 240mm guns in USSR, but it could be incorrectly identified 254mm/L45 coastal gun.

561 = 24cm H 561(a) = 240mm/L35 howitzer М1 or M1918, USA
Source: http://www.slcmaquettes.com/nouveau_fichier84.html (now inactive!)

564 = 24cm K 564(f) = 240mm/L26 gun Saint Chamond Mle 1884-1914, France
Another 564: 24cm K 564(r) - ?.
There was no 240mm guns in USSR, but it could be incorrectly identified 254mm/L45 coastal gun.

566 = 24cm K 566(f) = 240 gun Canon de 240mm 240 L mle 1917 St Chamond, France
Source: http://lemairesoft.sytes.net:1945/weben ... tml#120917
Another 566: = 24cm H 566(f) = Mortier de 240 mm LT Mle 1916
Source: http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/inde ... Itemid=613

571 = 24 cm K (E) 571(a) = 240mm railway gun M1919, USA
Source: http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/inde ... Itemid=613

572 = 25,4cm Küstenkanone 572(r) = 254mm coastal gun М 10, USSR
Version: 254mm/L45 was used in coastal defence but it was M1892.

582 = 26cm Mrs 582(i) = 260mm 260/9, Italy
Source: Kennblatter Fremden Gerats D 50/8b
Version: M260/9S Mod .916 (Schneider). In 1940 Italian army had 98 items.

585 = 27,0cm Küstenmorser 585(f) = 270mm/L12,4 coastal howitzer Mortier de cote de 270 Mle. 1889, France

591 = 27,4cm K(E) 591(f) = 274mm railway gun 87 u 93, France
Source: Kennblatter Fremden Gerats D 50/8b

592 = 27,4cm K(E) 592(f) = 274mm/L46,7 (or L41,9?) railway gun Cannon de 274 M 17 sur affut a glisement on railway mounting Mle 1917, France

594 = 27,4cm K(E) 594(f) = 274mm/L46,7 railway gun Cannon de 274 M87/93, France

601 = 28cm Mrs 601(f) = 279mm/L12 howitzer Mortier de 280 M 14/16 Schneider, France

602 = 28cm Mrs 602(f) = 280mm self-propelled Mortier de 280 M 14/16 sur chenilles, France

605 = 28,5cm K(E) 605(f) = 285mm/L45 railway gun Cannon de 285 sur affut M 17, France

607 = 28cm Mrs 607(r) = 280mm howitzer M1915, USSR

621 = 30,5cm H(E) 621(a) = 305mm/L10 railway howitzer 12 inch M1918, USA
Source: http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/inde ... Itemid=613

622 = 30,5cm H 622(r) = 305mm howitzer, USSR
623 = 30,5cm H 623(r) = 305mm howitzer, USSR

Version: there were two models of 305mm howitzer - M1915 (31 item in 1941) and BR-18 (Skoda system) (3 items in 1941).

625 = 30,5cm K(E) 625(r) = 305mm/L40 railway gun TM-2-12, USSR
Source: http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/inde ... Itemid=613

626 = 30,5cm Küstenkanone 626 (r) = 305mm/L52 coastal gun, USSR
= 30,5cm K(E) 626(r) = 305mm/L52 railway gun TM-3-12, USSR
Source: http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/inde ... Itemid=613

628 = 30,5cm Küstenkanone 628(r) = 305mm coastal gun, USSR
Source: http://www.slcmaquettes.com/nouveau_fichier84.html (now inactive!)
Source: viewtopic.php?t=124127. "30.5cm K?stenkanone 628(r). Krupp Built 305mm Russian model 1886 naval gun. Modified in 1891 by the barrel hoops for strength by the Obukhovski factory"
Version: A very interesting history. 305mm/L35 M1886 of Krupp design was a naval gun used on Russian battleships build in 1880-1890s. All these gun were removed from old battleships before 1914 and were put in depot in Sevastopol. They were intended for scrap in 1926. Maybe some of them were not scrapped and were found by Germans who erroneously suggested that these guns were coastal.


631 = 30,5cm H 631(e) = 305mm/L18,5 howitzer 12 inch Mk IV, UK

632 = 30,5cm H 632(b) = 305mm howitzer, Belgium (UK 12 inch Mk IV)
Source: http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/inde ... Itemid=613

633 = 30,5cm H(E) 633(e) = 305mm L/17,3 railway howitzer 12 Inch Mark III, UK
Source: http://lemairesoft.sytes.net:1945/weben ... tml#116915

634 = 30,5cm H(E) 634(e) = 305mm L/17,3 railway howitzer 12 Inch Mark V, UK
Source: http://lemairesoft.sytes.net:1945/weben ... tml#116915

636 = 30,5cm K(E) 636(f) = 305mm/L42 (L40 in France system) railway gun Cannon de 305 M 93/96, France

637 = 30,5cm K(E) 637(f) = 305mm/L46,5 (L45 in France system) railway gun Cannon de 305 M 06/10, France

638 = 30,5cm H 638(j) = 305mm/L12 howitzer Skoda M1916, Yugoslavia

639 = 30,5cm H 639(j) = 305mm/L10 howitzer Skoda M11/30, Yugoslavia

640 = 30,5cm Mrs 640(i) = 305mm howitzer 305/8 M 11/16 Sk, Italy (ex-Austo-Hungarian Skoda)
Source: Kennblatter Fremden Gerats D 50/8b

641 = 30,5cm Mrs 641(i) = 305mm howitzer 305/10 M 16 Sk, Italy (ex-Austo-Hungarian Skoda)
Source: Kennblatter Fremden Gerats D 50/8b

651 = 32cm K(E) 651(f) and 651/1(f) = 320mm/L31,6 railway gun Cannon de 320 M 70/84 on railway mounting Mle 1916, France

652 = 32cm K(E) 652(f) = 320mm/L37 railway gun Cannon de 320 sur affut M 17 (Mle 1870/93 on railway mounting Mle 1916), France

657 = 32cm K(E) 657(f) = 320mm railway gun Mat?riel de 320 mm Mle 1870/93 sur affût-truck à glissement, France
Source: http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/inde ... Itemid=613

673 = 34cm K Gl(E) 673(f) = 340mm/L47,3 (L45 in France system) railway gun Cannon de 340 M 12, France

674 = 34cm K W(E) 674(f) = 340mm/L47,3 (L45 in France system) railway gun Cannon de 340 M 12 rayee a 6, France

675 = 34cm K(E) 675(f) = 340mm railway gun Cannon de 340 M 12 rayee a 4, France

681 = 35,6cm K(E) 681(a) = 356mm/L50 railway gun 14 inch M1920, USA
Source: http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/inde ... Itemid=613

710 = 37cm H(E) 710(f) = 370mm howitzer Howitzer de 370 M 15 Filloux, France

711 = 37cm H(E) 711(f) = 370mm/L26,6 railway howitzer Howitzer de 370 M 15, France

714 = 37cm K(E) 714(f) = 370mm/L32 railway gun Cannon de 370 M 75/79, France

721 = 38cm sH 721(i) = 380mm howitzer 380/15 M 16 Sk, Italy (ex-Austo-Hungarian)
Source: Kennblatter Fremden Gerats D 50/8b

731 = 38,1cm H 731(e) = 381mm howitzer BL 15 inch Siege Howitzer Mk I, UK
Source: http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/inde ... Itemid=613
Source: viewtopic.php?f=70&t=180793#p1617973
Version: all these howitzers were scrapped in 1920s, so it is a German intellegence mistake

Source: in http://www.slcmaquettes.com/nouveau_fichier84.html (now inactive!) it was called 38cm Küstenkanone 731(e) but this look like incorrect

752 = 40cm H(E) 752(f) = 400mm/L26,6 railway howitzer Howitzer de 400 M 15/16, France

753 = 40cm Küstenkanone 753(r) = 406mm coastal gun, USSR
Source: http://www.slcmaquettes.com/nouveau_fichier84.html (now inactive!)
Version: there was no 406mm coastal guns in USSR. But during the siege of Leningrad a single item of naval 406mm/L51 B-37 gun was used, firing from the artillery test field.


754 = 40,6cm K(E) 754(a) = 406mm railway gun 16-inch Railway Gun M1919M2, USA
Source: http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/inde ... Itemid=613

755 = 40,6cm K(E) 755(a) = 406mm railway gun 16-inch Railway Gun M1920, USA
Source: http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/inde ... Itemid=613

772 = 772(r) = 420mm howitzer, USSR
Version: there was no 420mm or 406mm howitzers in Red Army. But such gun was designed in late 1930s, so again it could be a German intellegence mistake

871 = 52cm H(E) 871(f) = 520mm/L16 railway howitzer Howitzer de 520 M 16 Schneider, France

---
That's all folks! :)
With best wishes
Grigoriy

User avatar
Grigoriy
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Posts: 61
Joined: 08 Aug 2011 05:44

Re: Beute numbers

Post by Grigoriy » 12 Aug 2011 09:57

Well, the source http://www.slcmaquettes.com/nouveau_fichier84.html is dead. But I found it in Internet Archive Wayback Machine!
So it is possible to look at it again: http://web.archive.org/web/200804292209 ... ier84.html !
With best wishes
Grigoriy

Clive Mortimore
Member
Posts: 1247
Joined: 06 Jun 2009 22:38

Re: Beute numbers

Post by Clive Mortimore » 12 Aug 2011 13:46

Grigoriy wrote:Well, the source http://www.slcmaquettes.com/nouveau_fichier84.html is dead. But I found it in Internet Archive Wayback Machine!
So it is possible to look at it again: http://web.archive.org/web/200804292209 ... ier84.html !



Thanks Grigoriy

Suitabily copied for studing along with your work over the weekend.

Clive
Clive

jopaerya
Member
Posts: 17402
Joined: 21 Jun 2004 13:21
Location: middelburg

Re: Beute numbers

Post by jopaerya » 12 Aug 2011 20:13

Hello

We know that the Czech ( exept one ) and Polish gun did not recieve Beutenumbers , so the
first Beute list must be from around 1939/1940 . This one must be the one with all guns based
on intelligence and with several mistakes .

The list from 10-02-1943 is more based on facts and captured guns , also the ultra heavy guns
were left out .

Regards Jos

User avatar
Grigoriy
Member
Posts: 61
Joined: 08 Aug 2011 05:44

Re: Beute numbers

Post by Grigoriy » 12 Aug 2011 20:46

Well, this list is based on many different sourcies. I suppose that many of numbers are from different years. Of course here is a lot of guns that were never really captured (and more, here are guns that did not exist in reality in 1939-45). But it is not a list of captured weapons that were used by Wehrmaht — it's only a Beutenumber list, the artillery of enemy states not as it was really but as German army had thought about it.
With best wishes
Grigoriy

nuyt
Member
Posts: 1241
Joined: 29 Dec 2004 13:39
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Beute numbers

Post by nuyt » 12 Aug 2011 21:12

Grigoriy wrote:
153 = 3,7cm PaK 153(h) = 37mm/L45 AT gun Pantserafweer-geschut van 37 (Rheinmetall), Holland (PAK 36, purchased in Germany)
187 = 4,7cm PaK 187(h) = 47mm/L32 AT gun 4,7cm Pantser Afweer Geschut (PAG) van 47, Holland (Austrian Böhler)
188 = 4,7cm PaK 188(h) = 47mm/L39 AT gun Siderius Kanon van 47, Holland (Austrian Böhler)
241 = 7,5cm FK 241(h) = 75mm field gun Stuk van 7 Veld, Holland
Source: http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/inde ... Itemid=613
242 = 7,5cm FK 242(h) = 75mm field gun Stuk van 7 Veld OM 4, Holland
Source: http://www.dws-xip.pl/encyklopedia/inde ... Itemid=613
243 = 7,5cm FK 243(h) = 75mm/L30 field gun Stuk van 7 Veld Siderjus M.02.04 (Krupp M.02 system), Holland
279 = 8,14cm GrW 279(h) = 81mm mortar Brandt, Holland
Source: Hogg I. German Artillery of World War Two. 2002. P. 294. On Google Books
286 = 8,14cm GrW 286(h) = 81mm/L15,6 mortar mortier van 8 Brandt (M.27/31), Holland


153 = 3,7cm PaK 153(h): Holland only had 2 or 3. more likely this is the Bofors gun used in the 3 dozen armoured cars, most of which were taken over by the Germans
187 = 4,7cm PaK 187(h): Bohler pag
188 = 4,7cm PaK 188(h): I guess Hembrug/Johan de Witt model of later model Bohler, produced during the occupation with DAF carriage (Siderius never made these).
7,5cm FK 241(h): I am not aware this was still in service in 1940, all 7 Velds were converted by HIH or produced by Hembrug in the 1930s.
7,5cm FK 242(h): same
7,5cm FK 243(h): is this was the HIH converted one, did it include the more than a hundred ones built by Hembrug...?
8,14cm GrW 279(h): possibly original Brandts?
8,14cm GrW 286(h): HIH Siderius licence of Brandt or Hembrug 1930s model?
Where are the Siderius and Hembrug 5cm, L50 casemate guns and the 6 Velds?

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