Focke-Wulf Ta 183

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.
User avatar
Y Ddraig Goch
Member
Posts: 371
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 11:07
Location: Cymru

Focke-Wulf Ta 183

Post by Y Ddraig Goch » 13 Mar 2002 17:07

Would the Focke-Wulf Ta 183 jet fighter have been an effective aircraft had it entered service :?:
/ Mike

"That which does not kill us makes us stronger"
Friedrich Nietzsche

User avatar
Kurt_Steiner
Member
Posts: 3979
Joined: 14 Feb 2004 13:52
Location: Barcelona, Catalunya

Post by Kurt_Steiner » 23 May 2004 15:49

I think so, but I'm not sure at all. It would be like some kind of Mig17, fast, agile... In a word, difficult to stop.

http://www.luft46.com/fw/ta183-i.html

Best regards

User avatar
Uninen
Member
Posts: 676
Joined: 21 Feb 2004 19:26
Location: Festung Europa, Finnland

Post by Uninen » 24 May 2004 16:47

MiG-15 was basicly a Ta 183, Soviet even build their first "MiG-15"'s to German Ta 183 plans that they captured, completed with Nene engine of course. :P

Image
Soviet build Ta 183.
After the war, the Ta 183 story continued. The Soviets found a complete set of plans for the Ta 183 in Berlin at the RLM offices, and began construction of six prototypes in March 1946 by the MIG design bureau. On July 2, 1947, the first Soviet-built Ta 183 took to the air powered by a British Rolls-Royce "Nene" turbojet. They discovered that the original Ta 183 design needed either automatic leading edge slots or wing boundry layer fences to alleviate low-speed stalling. Also, as a compromise between high-speed and low-speed flying, the horizontal stabilizer was moved approximately one-third down from the top of the vertical tail. The modified Ta 183 first flew on December 30, 1947 and in May 1948 was ordered into production as the MIG 15.
:wink:

MadderCat
Member
Posts: 428
Joined: 10 May 2003 12:52
Location: Germany

Post by MadderCat » 24 May 2004 18:34

sorry uninen that I disagree with You

the MiG-15 was totally different to the Ta-183,
try to get SquadronSignal's book on the MiG-15
or have a closer look at this site : http://www.luft46.com/fw/ta183-i.html

the sowjet's did in fact copy the german jet engines as RD-10 and RD-20,
they built an jet figther similar to the Me-262, but never did use the Ta-183
as MiG-15... pure nonsense


MadderCat

User avatar
Uninen
Member
Posts: 676
Joined: 21 Feb 2004 19:26
Location: Festung Europa, Finnland

Post by Uninen » 24 May 2004 19:20

Read my quote, its from the web site, and look at the pic, of Russian build Ta 183.... At least to me it seems real.

MadderCat
Member
Posts: 428
Joined: 10 May 2003 12:52
Location: Germany

Post by MadderCat » 24 May 2004 19:51

uninen:
did You ever a MiG-15???
if not look there: http://www.suchoj.com/galerie/index.htm ... erie.shtml
or something about the history of the MiG-15:
http://www.cavanaughflightmuseum.com/Ai ... Page1.html
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/airdef/mig-15.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/ab4/airplanes/ ... Fagot.html

Do You really think the Russians would built a frontline Jet fighter of german origin in 1945-1950?
I would say no, never...

make a search on Yahoo/Google/elsewhere about the MiG-15 Fagot
and learn something about this plane


the picture of the sowjet built was discussed on AAW-Board & AWF-Board
& LEMB, conclusion was : it should be a fake (95% certain)
because the final german design had the cockpit placed in the middle

MadderCat

User avatar
Uninen
Member
Posts: 676
Joined: 21 Feb 2004 19:26
Location: Festung Europa, Finnland

Post by Uninen » 28 May 2004 03:04

MadderCat wrote:Do You really think the Russians would built a frontline Jet fighter of german origin in 1945-1950?
I would say no, never...
Link

Well, you know the first "Soviet" aircraft that went supersonic, Samolyot 346-1.. was stolen DFS 346..

The victors without mercy stole everything they could get their hands on and used "it" or "them" to the fullest utility.

And thanks, but no thanks, i know about everything there is to know about the MiG-15. :?

And of the picture, i dont know if its real or photoshop, but as of now, i find it very realistic looking.

User avatar
Topspeed
Member
Posts: 4607
Joined: 15 Jun 2004 15:19
Location: Finland

Post by Topspeed » 19 Jun 2004 08:35

Wauuuu !

When was this built ?

I know that practically all russian early jets and rockets were designed by german engineers that were hauled to there from collapsed nazi Germany.

Great shot.

Patrice
Member
Posts: 722
Joined: 03 May 2004 16:44
Location: Liège Belgium

Post by Patrice » 19 Jun 2004 08:56

Hello.
If you likes the Luftwaffe 46 go on
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=8
There are somes very nice 3D and war time pictures on
www German secret weapons from the air.
two examples found on it the Messerschmitt P1101 and a Us airplane witch look like the P1101.
Cheers Patrice.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Topspeed
Member
Posts: 4607
Joined: 15 Jun 2004 15:19
Location: Finland

Post by Topspeed » 19 Jun 2004 09:21

Patrice darling,

Thank you so much me likes it alot.

---------------------------------------

OTOH: It was maybe too militaristic..me more science professor type !


Sincerely,

Jukka T / Oulu

User avatar
Petrus
Member
Posts: 179
Joined: 13 Jun 2004 21:59
Location: Warsaw (Poland)

Post by Petrus » 19 Jun 2004 14:18

Please don't forget the Ta-183's true descendant: the "Argentinian" IA-33 Pulqui II. The country's name has been put in the quotation marks as the plane was designed by nobody else than Dr Kurt Tank himself (and his team of the Focke-Wulf background). It was the Pulqui II that mated the aerodynamic concept developed by Tank and the British Nene engine. Soviets for their part undoubtly took advantage of the Ta-183 design while building their MiG-15, however the MiG cannot be regarded as a direct copy of the Tank's project.
By the way, you could trace similar, quite close relationship between the Messerschmitt's P.1101 and the American F-86 (ref. "Secret Messerschmitt Projects" by Willy Radinger and Walter Schick)

Below in the drawings you may see the three planes compared. I found the pictures long time ago at a website whose address has gone out of my mind. I'm afraid the site doesn't exist any more as my attempts to find it again (using Google) have all ended in vain.

As for the Pulqui II there are some links:
http://www.laahs.com/art00.htm
http://arqueologiaaeronautica2.hypermar ... UI%202.htm (I'm not sure if the site is still there)
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FRPulqui.htm
http://www.geocities.com/bacosistemas01/Pulqui_2.html

Best regards,
Piotr
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Topspeed
Member
Posts: 4607
Joined: 15 Jun 2004 15:19
Location: Finland

Post by Topspeed » 19 Jun 2004 14:50

How come I remember Sabre had slightly edge over the Mig-15 ?

Sabre had an e-seat and Mig didn't could it be ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

So we cannot say Focke Wulfs design was inferior to Messerschmitt design when we talk about Korean era fighters :)

User avatar
Topspeed
Member
Posts: 4607
Joined: 15 Jun 2004 15:19
Location: Finland

Post by Topspeed » 16 Aug 2004 17:09

Here is a sight of Ta 183 in action..from Luft 46.com :D
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Cantankerous
Member
Posts: 520
Joined: 01 Sep 2019 21:22
Location: Newport Coast

Re:

Post by Cantankerous » 12 Mar 2021 21:19

Petrus wrote:
19 Jun 2004 14:18
Soviets for their part undoubtly took advantage of the Ta-183 design while building their MiG-15, however the MiG cannot be regarded as a direct copy of the Tank's project.
A book about the MiG-15 published by Yefim Gordon in 2001 notes that the MiG-15's design largely stemmed from testing of the MiG-8 Utka (duck) experimental swept-wing plane, and that the Ta 183 was not designed to fly as fast as the MiG-15. The situation where the MiG-15 bore only some superficial resemblance to the Ta 183 reminds me of the fact that the F-86 Sabre, the MiG-15's archenemy in the Korean War, was originally designed with straight wings before being redesigned with backswept wings after the Americans captured treasure troves of German aeronautical research.

Gordon, Y., 2001 Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-15: The Soviet Union's Long-Lived Korean War Fighter. Earl Shilton, Leicester, UK: Midland Publishing Ltd. ISBN 1-85780-105-9.

Return to “Luftwaffe air units and Luftwaffe in general”