The "Motti" term and the truth behind the legend

[Philip S. Walker]

I'm opening this thread to get some information on the legendary "motti term". The information I have obtained so far seems to be contradicting. Some say it describes an armload of firewood, with the arms around it being a metaphor for the Finnish encirclement of a Soviet unit. Others say it is originally a Swedish lumberjack term ("mätt") for piles of firewood stacked along a forest road waiting to be picked up, an explanation which seems more logical to me considering what really happened.

The other thing I would like to see some light cast upon in this thread is the value of and the historical battlefield strategy behind this phenomenon. Some sources present it as a very clever Finnish idea thought out in advance, others as something that happened due to unpredicted circumstances and then turned out to be very practical (splitting the encircled Soviet units into smaller isolated groups made it more difficult for the Soviets to support them from the air). There are also sources who claim that the mottis in some cases were by and large impractical for the Finns.

Regards, Vely

[Mikko H.]

I'm opening this thread to get some information on the legendary "motti term". The information I have obtained so far seems to be contradicting. Some say it describes an armload of firewood, with the arms around it being a metaphor for the Finnish encirclement of a Soviet unit. Others say it is originally a Swedish lumberjack term ("mätt") for piles of firewood stacked along a forest road waiting to be picked up, an explanation which seems more logical to me considering what really happened.

A more prosaic explanation is that one of the very first mottis happened to form around a map reference point code named 'Motti'. First this name was applied to that particular motti and later -- no doubt because it was so apposite name -- it became general term for such encirclements.

The other thing I would like to see some light cast upon in this thread is the value of and the historical battlefield strategy behind this phenomenon. Some sources present it as a very clever Finnish idea thought out in advance, others as something that happened due to unpredicted circumstances and then turned out to be very practical (splitting the encircled Soviet units into smaller isolated groups made it more difficult for the Soviets to support them from the air). There are also sources who claim that the mottis in some cases were by and large impractical for the Finns.

The view that it was an accidental and sometimes inconvenient [*] tactic has been the dominant opinion of the FInnish historiography for quite some time now.

[*] Inconvenient because the larger mottis tied up manpower to contain them but demanded more man- and firepower to destroy than Finns had easily available.

[Vaeltaja]

Others say it is originally a Swedish lumberjack term ("mätt") for piles of firewood stacked along a forest road waiting to be picked up, an explanation which seems more logical to me considering what really happened.

Not 'mätt' ( = satiated, from food) but 'mått' ( = a measure, of something), which happens to be the exact same what 'motti' means. Swedish word 'motti' is a loanword from Finnish word which in turn is a loanword from Swedish. Motti (or rather halkomotti - 'motti' does have couple of other meanings as well) = 1 cubic meter of chopped wood (depending on seller it can be either stacked or loose cubic meter of wood), 'a measure of wood'.

The view that it was an accidental and sometimes inconvenient [*] tactic has been the dominant opinion of the FInnish historiography for quite some time now.

[*] Inconvenient because the larger mottis tied up manpower to contain them but demanded more man- and firepower to destroy than Finns had easily available.

I understood that it was inconvenient but not accidental, that is flanking maneuvers and small scale guerilla actions were intentional, lack of any heavy weapons made however them inconvenient. More or less thanks due to the cuts in military budget which prevented military from acquiring 'siege weapons' (ie. large bore (240 - 300 mm) mortars).

[Jagala]

Modern urban Finns cannot be relied upon to know the meaning of such words. Some of them apparently do not even know the difference of a "sylys" and a "motti" of wood.

BTW back in the good days when a man had to earn his living by felling trees there was something called "rosvomitta": to get paid for one "motti" you usually had to pile up maybe 120 cm of wood.

BTW I wonder if Pasi Tuunainen came up with a "definitive" etymology for "motti" in "Mottien Maa"?

[Seppo Koivisto]

In autumn 1942 every town resident had to cut one motti or one cubic meter of split wood (halko). I think the Swedish term is "travat mått".

http://www.uta.fi/laitokset/historia/ko ... 2/1942.htm

[Juha Tompuri]

Yes, like at the photo Seppo posted, the original halkomotti was made of 1m long spitted wood inside to 1x1m wooden frames. Sometimes a little bit over 1m high - to compensate the shrinkage (because of drying) - so that there would be a 1m³ of dry wood left.
Today motti more or less means 1m³ of nearly everything.

Regards, Juha

[kuuskajaskari]

As you can see in the mottiphoto, there is no way to escape.

after lots of mottis,
regards jukka

[Juha Tompuri]

BTW back in the good days when a man had to earn his living by felling trees there was something called "rosvomitta": to get paid for one "motti" you usually had to pile up maybe 120 cm of wood.

original halkomotti was made of 1m long spitted wood inside to 1x1m wooden frames. Sometimes a little bit over 1m high - to compensate the shrinkage (because of drying) - so that there would be a 1m³ of dry wood left

I think the shrinkage was about 10 % - so 110cm high motti of "fresh" wood would have compensated the shrinkage.
120cm being then "rosvous" (robery)

As you can see in the mottiphoto, there is no way to escape.

Yep.
Thin frames holding the content inside.

Regards, Juha

[Philip S. Walker]

Thanks for the excellent replies and reactions here. Much appreciated, as always!

Mikko H: A more prosaic explanation is that one of the very first mottis happened to form around a map reference point code named 'Motti'. First this name was applied to that particular motti and later -- no doubt because it was so apposite name -- it became general term for such encirclements.

How much is there to this explanation? Do we actually know when the term was first used in its military meaning and which situation it related to?

Regarding the picture, I wonder if there is a story connected to it. Some of the people in it seem to wear bits and pieces of military uniforms.

The reason I like the "Swedish" explanation is that it mentions the "along the road" aspect, which is exactly how many of these encirclements were lain out. But that doesn't prove it is true, of course - unfortunately. I found it here:

Silasvuo had his tactics ready: the enemy force were to be split up by a suprise attack from the edge of the forest, split into minor groups which the Finns were then to encircle and annihilate. It could be seen as lumber jacking : the trees were to be felled, lopped and placed along the road in what in Swedish is called "mått", for later removal. From Swedish the word had slipped into Finnish in the form of "motti": something manageable.

Søren Sørensen, "Vinterkrigen i Finland, 1939-40", here translated from Danish (Don't get too hung up on the wording; the author is sometimes a little obsessed with being "a real writer" and loses the grip on things.)

I not sure of the official name of this particular motti, perhaps the Kuhmo-motti? The beginning of the battle is set to 5 January 1940. After it, Peter de Hemmer Gudme visited the battlefield and wrote this about it, again translated from Danish:

It was a terrible sight ... There it was, nearly the entire division. One pile of corpses next to the other. A sacrifice to the terrible God of War. Kilometre after kilometre there are piles of corpses lying between cannons and tanks and the entire train, hundreds of dead horses and dozens of cars and artillery pieces, all the things that go with the running of an army.

From "Finland's Folk i Kamp"

While on that subject, I wonder how unique Gudme's reportage actually is. Were journalists normally allowed to go so close to things as he did (I have translated some more of his reportage elsewhere on this forum).

Regards, Vely

[Jagala]

The photograph is taken in or near Tampere in 1942 during a so-called "mottitalkoo". (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talkoot although during wartime these weren't entirely voluntary). Two of the men appear to be soldiers, probably on leave, in sort of half uniform, while the rest wear typical civilian winter work wear.

The foreign correspondents (iincluding Martha Gellhorn and Indro Montanelli) were more or less kept in leash and even those who didn't prefer to stay in Hotel Kämp (where they were briefed by military and civilian experts) were only allowed to visit the battle field in "group trips" led by guides from the Information Dept of the Finnish HQ. The first of these was probably made to show the aftermath of the battle on the Raate road in Suomussalmi (but some of the news stories that appeared were no doubt written by journalists who hadn't bothered to make the long journey).

Some newspapermen travelled on their own as far as Rovaniemi, but didn't get any closer to the front. And some were happy to stage photographs in the forests of Helsinki with some help from Soviet POWs and Finnish conscripts from the local garrison...

[Mangrove]

The term is unknown to IV AKE's code word dictionary dated to 15 January 1940. The code for "to encircle" (saarrostaa) is given as kuopata.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=1583165

[Seppo Koivisto]

I think motti was military slang rather than an official code. According to page 514 of Talvisodan pikkujättiläinen, a planned location of a communications central with the code name Motti, remained within the Lemetti encirclement and gave its name to that encirclement and later to all encirclements within the IV Army Corps. Motti was in current use in the second half of January 1940 according to Finnish Wiki.

http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motti

[St.George]

I have read that the Battle at Joutselkään 1555 (In Swedish Slaget vid Kivinebb) was one of the key inspirations to Finnish doctrine/tactic prior to WWII.

[Mangrove]

I have read that the Battle at Joutselkään 1555 (In Swedish Slaget vid Kivinebb) was one of the key inspirations to Finnish doctrine/tactic prior to WWII.

Joose Hannula provided what I still considered to the best account of the battle in his book Sotataidon historia II ("Art of Warfare II") published in 1931. During the same year a memorial was also founded at the location of the battle. These may have contributed to the national identity but there are no direct references to the battle on any of the pre-war military manuals I have read.

[Seppo Jyrkinen]

One explanation was in Kansa Taisteli magazine (if i remember right).

The one who told this story was in a tent at front area (north of Ladoga) and was listening when an officer was calling to he's superiors to describe the situation. This officer told something like: "The shape of Russian forces is like a baby-frog. The motti-head (mottipää) is located on the area of street crossing when the tail slithers along the road."

Won't guarantee it's true but sounds quite possible.