Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia

Discussions on the foreigners (volunteers as well as conscripts) fighting in the German Wehrmacht, those collaborating with the Axis and other period Far Right organizations. Hosted by George Lepre.
User avatar
Edpin
Member
Posts: 75
Joined: 19 Sep 2011 11:12

Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia

Post by Edpin » 13 Jun 2012 16:59

Hi all,

I have an issue regarding two Waffen-SS soldiers that came from Indonesia.

Robin Lumsden in his book 'A Collectors Guide To: The Waffen-SS' states that there were two Volksdeutsche from Sumatra.
Sumatra is apparently an island in western part of Indonesia.

At that time, Indonesia was occupied by the Dutch (before Japan came and also occupied it) and the country was known as Dutch East Indies.

One of them that is known (or at least believed) until this time, is the soldier on the attached picture.
He served in the 23rd Waffen-SS Panzergrenadier Division Freiwilligen Legion Nederland.
But the question is, whether or not it is possible that this soldier was one of the two Volksdeutsche described earlier.

Moreover, I am interested with the details about this story if anyone could help me.
Any information and evidence would be very appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Edpin
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Harro
Member
Posts: 3045
Joined: 19 May 2005 18:10
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia

Post by Harro » 13 Jun 2012 17:46

Note that born in Indonesia (or better: the Dutch East Indies because Indonesia did not exist as a nation at that time) does not necessarily mean Asian blood. There were probably quite a lot SS members from the Dutch East Indies as a lot of Dutch families lived there. For example SS-Sturmbannführer Frederik van Dierman was born in Ngawi at Java, SS-Obersturmführer Jan van der Hoeven (who served in the Landstorm Nederland division) was born in Semarang at Java and SS-Hauptsturmführer Gerard Dijkema was born in Buitenzorg, also at Java. SS-Hauptsturmführer Johannes Ilcken was also born in Surabaya and SS-Hauptsturmführer Pieter Schleurholtz-Boerma was born in Batavia at Java.

That's just a quick scan of half of John Moore's Führerliste so there are bound more and that's just the officers. Java was the main governmental isle but with administrative offices and huge plantations on dozens of islands no doubt some Dutch members of the SS were born at Sumatra (the second largest island of Indonesia).

Ypenburg
Member
Posts: 536
Joined: 28 Jul 2006 20:45

Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia

Post by Ypenburg » 14 Jun 2012 00:03

Not to mention the German nationals born in the Dutch East Indies who served in the Wehrmacht, like f.e. Dr. Helmut Schreiber from IR16 who was born at Sumatra.

User avatar
Edpin
Member
Posts: 75
Joined: 19 Sep 2011 11:12

Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia

Post by Edpin » 14 Jun 2012 04:31

Harro,
Thanks a lot for the information you provided :)
That is really an interesting story. However, I'd like to know more about this.
Is there any way I could obtain the references that contain details about this (literatures/books or internet sources)?
Or John Moore's Führerliste you mentioned before, where can I obtain it?

Ypenburg,
Thanks a lot also for the information you shared :)
I dont know if there's a soldier from Sumatra who served in the Wehrmacht (I believe that you mean is Heer/Army).

ninoo
Member
Posts: 480
Joined: 10 Nov 2003 08:08
Location: manado

Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia

Post by ninoo » 15 Jun 2012 02:06

Another soldier from Sumatra is Fritz Schneewind. Born in Padang town in Sumatra, he served as an U-Boat commander and sunk with his ship in Java Sea, Indonesia/East Indies!

There was issues that Meinout Rost van Tonningen (born in Soerabaja, Java), the NSB leader, have Indonesian blood. Thus, Himmler personally rejected his intention to join with SS during early phase of war, but finally give him permission to join SS 'Landstorm Nederland' in final years of war, after the SS finally thrown-out theirs illusion about the Aryan pure master-race.
Last edited by ninoo on 15 Jun 2012 02:14, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Edpin
Member
Posts: 75
Joined: 19 Sep 2011 11:12

Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia

Post by Edpin » 15 Jun 2012 02:11

ninoo,

Thanks for your information.
I think I've seen the graveyard of German U-boot crews in Indonesia, but I can't remember the exact location.

ninoo
Member
Posts: 480
Joined: 10 Nov 2003 08:08
Location: manado

Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia

Post by ninoo » 15 Jun 2012 03:00

Edpin wrote:ninoo,

Thanks for your information.
I think I've seen the graveyard of German U-boot crews in Indonesia, but I can't remember the exact location.
The graveyard is in West Java.

User avatar
Edpin
Member
Posts: 75
Joined: 19 Sep 2011 11:12

Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia

Post by Edpin » 15 Jun 2012 03:25

ninoo,

That's interesting about Fritz Schneewind, I've checked the following link:
http://www.uboat.net/men/commanders/1103.html

However, back to the first topic, the one I want to know is the two men from Sumatra who joined the 23.Pzgr.Div. Nederland. Whether the man on the picture is one of these two men.

Also, any references related to this discussion would be great (such as John Moore's Führerliste that Harro mentioned earlier).

ninoo
Member
Posts: 480
Joined: 10 Nov 2003 08:08
Location: manado

Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia

Post by ninoo » 15 Jun 2012 04:17

Edpin wrote:ninoo,

That's interesting about Fritz Schneewind, I've checked the following link:
http://www.uboat.net/men/commanders/1103.html

However, back to the first topic, the one I want to know is the two men from Sumatra who joined the 23.Pzgr.Div. Nederland. Whether the man on the picture is one of these two men.

Also, any references related to this discussion would be great (such as John Moore's Führerliste that Harro mentioned earlier).
I'm not sure that the two Volksdeutsche (ethnic-German) join with the 23.Pzgr.Div. Nederland, and I don't think that the pic above is one of them.
I read this info from chapter Volksduetsche volunteers of the list of foreign volunteers in Antonio Munoz's "Forgotten Legions" and he didn't said name of those volunteers and which unit that they served.
The pic above came from Rickmenspoel's "Waffen-SS Encyclopedia" and not much info about who is the volunteer except he served in the SS Landstorm Nederland Division and killed by an US paratrooper in Nijmegen. Most probably he was an Eurasian (Dutch-Indo) than full Indonesian (in fact, a pseudo-historian in an Indonesian military magazine claim that he was a Javanese, even when Rickmenspoel, the first person that told about this strange volunteer, didn't said like that).

User avatar
Edpin
Member
Posts: 75
Joined: 19 Sep 2011 11:12

Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia

Post by Edpin » 15 Jun 2012 04:26

ninoo,

That's really a nice story you shared, mate.
I think I've seen the history of that soldier in an Indonesian military magazine you mentioned before, the one I read is 'Angkasa' collection edition (if I'm not mistaken).
Unfortunately, it only tells the short history in one column.

It's rather difficult to obtain the full details about this story. Perhaps because the genuine evidence is not well provided.
Anyway, thanks for your info, ninoo.

Jeromebinten
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: 08 Mar 2014 16:52

Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia

Post by Jeromebinten » 08 Mar 2014 17:29

Edpin wrote:Hi all,

I have an issue regarding two Waffen-SS soldiers that came from Indonesia.

Robin Lumsden in his book 'A Collectors Guide To: The Waffen-SS' states that there were two Volksdeutsche from Sumatra.
Sumatra is apparently an island in western part of Indonesia.

At that time, Indonesia was occupied by the Dutch (before Japan came and also occupied it) and the country was known as Dutch East Indies.

One of them that is known (or at least believed) until this time, is the soldier on the attached picture.
He served in the 23rd Waffen-SS Panzergrenadier Division Freiwilligen Legion Nederland.
But the question is, whether or not it is possible that this soldier was one of the two Volksdeutsche described earlier.

Moreover, I am interested with the details about this story if anyone could help me.
Any information and evidence would be very appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Best regards,
Edpin
Volksdeutsche from Sumatra does not mean that they were of Eurasian descent. Most Germans/partly jews, were transported to Britisch India as prisinors.

The person on the photo is most likely a Dutch-Indo, Dutch Indo's were very national socialistic. 70% of these Dutch Indo's were member of the Dutch National socialistic movement, the NSB. Native Indonesian were not full citizens of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, Dutch Indo's were. Many of them joined the SS and fought in Russia. A lot of them came directly from the Dutch military academy, the KMA in Breda. Native Indonesians were interned by the Germans in prisons and camps, parts also served with the Dutch resistance.

Mark Bando is the one who came up with the idea that this person could be Indonesian in one of his books, a terrible mistake because he was not informed of the Dutch-Indo culture.

Jeromebinten
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: 08 Mar 2014 16:52

Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia

Post by Jeromebinten » 08 Mar 2014 20:57

ninoo wrote:Another soldier from Sumatra is Fritz Schneewind. Born in Padang town in Sumatra, he served as an U-Boat commander and sunk with his ship in Java Sea, Indonesia/East Indies!

There was issues that Meinout Rost van Tonningen (born in Soerabaja, Java), the NSB leader, have Indonesian blood. Thus, Himmler personally rejected his intention to join with SS during early phase of war, but finally give him permission to join SS 'Landstorm Nederland' in final years of war, after the SS finally thrown-out theirs illusion about the Aryan pure master-race.
Meinout Rost van Tonningen was not allowed to the SS because he could not show his family records due the war circumstances. The archives in Japanese occupied East Indies were not available at that time.

It's not that the SS staff "finally thrown-out theirs illusion about the Aryan pure master-race" it was the fact that Nazi-Germany was losing a war and they needed everyone they could get.

Return to “Foreign Volunteers & Collaboration”