Ilse Stahl

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Helge
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Ilse Stahl

Post by Helge » 26 Jul 2012 12:04

I have heard little of Ilse Stahl and only in relation to his marriage to Josef Terboven or as alleged lover of Joseph Goebbels. This woman (before and after the war) I know little. We want to learn more?

Under a portrait of Ilse Stahl
Photo: http://www.fpp.co.uk/docs/Irving/RadDi/2012/160612.html
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Sota ei päätä kuka on oikeassa, vain sen että kuka on jäljellä.
War does not decide who is right but only those who are left.

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von Brackwede
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Re: Ilse Stahl

Post by von Brackwede » 26 Jul 2012 16:00

In the book Terboven - Hitler's man in Norway, the norwegian author Berit Nøkleby claims that Ilse Stahl - a Goebbels-secretary - had a relationship with her boss. They met for the first time in the propagandadepartment in 1930. However, Goebbels met Magda and married her in 1931 (wich didn't stop his women-affairs). Ilse married Josef Terboven in 1934 and they had a daughter, Inge Terboven. Their marriage was not a happy one. Ilse and Inge never visited Terboven in Norway. She died in 1972.

According to the pictures (and Goebbels) she was a beautyful woman.

Source: Berit Nøkleby. Josef Terboven. Hitlers mann i Norge. Gyldendal norsk forlag 1992.

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Helge
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Re: Ilse Stahl

Post by Helge » 26 Jul 2012 19:06

Thanks von Brackwede and thanks for the indication of the book. The wedding was in Essen on June 29, 1934. Inge's only this photograph.

Source photo: http://www.fpp.co.uk/Hitler/images/chil ... itler.html
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Sota ei päätä kuka on oikeassa, vain sen että kuka on jäljellä.
War does not decide who is right but only those who are left.

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Annelie
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Re: Ilse Stahl

Post by Annelie » 26 Jul 2012 20:28

This picture is one of a series from an album kept by Ilse Stahl, which with her diary is now in private hands in the USA.



Wonder if its an collector, historian or perhaps family.
Would be interesting to see other photos from the album.

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Helge
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Re: Ilse Stahl

Post by Helge » 27 Jul 2012 10:16

Correction: the marriage (Church wedding) took place on 28th June 1934 (Source: Historisches Centrum Hagen)
http://www.historisches-centrum.de/index.php?id=287
Sota ei päätä kuka on oikeassa, vain sen että kuka on jäljellä.
War does not decide who is right but only those who are left.

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Max
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Re: Ilse Stahl

Post by Max » 27 Jul 2012 11:49

Annelie wrote:
This picture is one of a series from an album kept by Ilse Stahl, which with her diary is now in private hands in the USA.



Wonder if its an collector, historian or perhaps family.
Would be interesting to see other photos from the album.


I wonder if this was the same album. One for "Caption This " in The Lounge perhaps.

Image
Bildet er tatt i 1942, under en tjenestereise som reichskommissar Josef Terboven gjorde gjennom Finland til Finnmark. Albumet har Riksarkivet nettopp kjøpt fra en privat samling.

The picture was taken in 1942, while on a business trip as reichskommissar Josef Terboven did through Finland to Norway. The album has riksarkivet [?] just ( been)bought from a private collection.
http://www.jakobarvola.com/2012/05/29/det-fullkomne-fyllebildet/
Greetings from the Wide Brown.

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Helge
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Re: Ilse Stahl

Post by Helge » 28 Jul 2012 10:15

von Brackwede wrote:.....Their marriage was not a happy one.......
Source: Berit Nøkleby. Josef Terboven. Hitlers mann i Norge. Gyldendal norsk forlag 1992.



Josef Terboven had a Mistress: the actress (and spy) Norwegian Sonja Wigert

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks ... 619154.ece
http://www.aftenposten.no/amagasinet/Sp ... 44329.html
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Sota ei päätä kuka on oikeassa, vain sen että kuka on jäljellä.
War does not decide who is right but only those who are left.

J. Duncan
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Re: Ilse Stahl

Post by J. Duncan » 28 Jul 2012 10:54

Is that the usually taciturnTerboven himself goofing around with the hammer in the photo above? I wasn't certain it was him or a member of his administration. If it's him, it shows him in a more human light, as most photos of him usually do not show him smiling or at leisure. His reputation was one of toughness and disregard for his subjects. Hamsun wept in front of Hitler over Terboven's harshness in dealing with the Norwegians. Below is a dramatization of that meeting based on recorded memoirs and testimonies...it was one of the worst personal situations Hitler ever encountered and he stormed out in a huff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSAUmsM8 ... re=related

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Helge
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Re: Ilse Stahl

Post by Helge » 28 Jul 2012 11:30

Hello Duncan. Terboven smiling!
Photo: Riksarkivet (National Archives of Norway)
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Sota ei päätä kuka on oikeassa, vain sen että kuka on jäljellä.
War does not decide who is right but only those who are left.

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Helge
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Re: Ilse Stahl

Post by Helge » 24 May 2016 05:50

Photo: private album / Berit Nøkleby book

http://www.dagbladet.no/
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Sota ei päätä kuka on oikeassa, vain sen että kuka on jäljellä.
War does not decide who is right but only those who are left.

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Helge
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Re: Ilse Stahl

Post by Helge » 24 May 2016 06:30

Terboven daughter killed her own child.

Terboven marriage had creaked loudly even before the war. He married on 28 June 1934 with Ilse, who was Minister of Propaganda Joseph Goebbels former secretary and mistress. Nazi top used wedding party as a cover for preparations on the following day's brutal slaughter of Ernst Röhm and a couple hundred other SA-tops. Daughter Inge was born the following year - and should have been gauleiterens's eye. Marriage creaked however loud and neither my wife or daughter ever came to visit Norway. Terboven made ​​however to see your child as often as it was practicable, when he was in service to my home country. Inge Terboven made ​​his own Nazi career and ended up as head of the women's movement in a large range of Lüneburg Heath. After the war, have mother and daughter have lived five or six years under relatively poor conditions in a camp. First in 1951 reported the relocation to own apartment in Duisburg. Inge gets a job as a secretary in the private foundation.

In autumn 1964 Terboven daughter become a married woman of 29 years. She has the two year old daughter Sibylle. But the marriage with the 12 year old optometrist Horst goes on wheels. Inge have just stayed two weeks with her ​​mother in the neighboring city when she Wednesday 7 October return to Frankfurt. A meeting with the spouse goes bad, and she takes the kid and rushes out the door. The murder was discovered at half past one o'clock Thursday night, after Inge had called on his door and left a letter in which she wrote to her husband Horst (41) that his daughter was no longer alive. Now she would take "baby" - Inge was four months pregnant - and leave this world.

A police patrol who broke into the room 57 of the Hotel Rex in Berliner Strasse, found the lifeless child in a bed.

At half-past four in the morning that Friday, tried Inge to commit suicide by throwing himself in front of a car near the railway station in Frankfurt am Main. The driver managed, however, to avoid the collision. He got hold of her, as she was about to climb up on the railing of a bridge over the river Main - obviously to jump into the water. This managed to prevent the man, and he held on to Inge Patz police arrived.

Facing criminal chief commissioner Knappik she made later in the day a comprehensive confession. Inge said she at 17 o'clock in the afternoon had washed her daughter and put her to bed, where she fell asleep. Suddenly Inge had an idea that she was going to kill the little girl. While she strangled the child with his left hand around his neck, she with the right a pillow over his face. A few minutes later confirmed she that Sibylle was no longer alive.

An hour later she had left the hotel and had wandered around aimlessly for hours, while she tried to decide to take his own life. She explained that she could not go on living without her husband and was essentially returned to reconcile with him. But she had the impression that Horst rather wanted a permanent dissolution of the relationship. Therefore she had Wednesday morning left home and was - together with her ​​daughter - taken into the hotel. -Terbovens Former secretary - Gerda Hettich - told me during the work on the biography of the national commissioner, that there had been what she characterized as "a tragedy" in the family says historian Berit Nøkleby.

Documents Dagbladet found in the German National Archives, show that Inge escaped an indictment for murder - which in Germany would automatically resulted in life imprisonment. Instead, she was convicted of violence resulting in death and got away with less than a year in prison, which was largely atoned in prison time. In March 1965 she had another son, as the prison authorities immediately took from her. This child had a serious heart condition and was apparently placed with foster parents. Inge himself was separated from her husband and underwent psychiatric treatment. On free foot again, she now has a job in the house of a rich countess who lives near Frankfurt and seems to survive on their own in a small apartment in the city.

- I had contact with her early 90s. We exchanged letters and talked a few times on the phone. Inge had only vague memories of her father, and would like to know who he really was. She also gave me copies of photos from the family album, says Berit Nøkleby.

28.juni 1965 to Attorney from Frankfurt to the central office for the investigation of crimes committed during the Nazi era. He said that the widow of the former national commissioner in Norway - Ilse Terboven resident in Duisburg - wrote in a letter to his daughter Inge, on remand prison, "Dad visited me. He's fine and is recovered. "" I must go out from that passage shall must concern Terboven, as long would be dead. This information, "concludes the prosecutor.

Lives there Reichskommisar? A State associate react immediately and notify the state's criminal police central that it now needs to be examined "on Terboven really committed suicide - or whether his death in Norway was only a well prepared fraud." The reference to "dad" can also target other than Inge's natural father, he points out. The 22.september went the letter to Norway's attorney general, Andrew Aulie, that in connection with the preliminary to a possible investigation about Nazi crimes committed in Norway, it would be necessary to get - "routine" - investigated whether Terboven really committed suicide. He asked once about getting forwarded a list of which crimes he may be suspected of having committed during his time as national commissioner - whether and if so, what murder he could be held liable.

The 14.10. sends Criminal Police headquarters in Hesse a "preliminary report" to the central office for investigating Nazi crimes. "Widow T. lives secluded and allegedly under very modest circumstances in a small apartment in Duisburg. The last 10-15 years, she has had a firm friend, who obviously is a traveling salesman and occasionally come to visit. This person is 60-65 years old and small in stature. He has gray hair and is distinguished not particularly elegant attire. Mrs. T. tend otherwise to travel to the south on vacation once a year. She always comes brown home ", said police investigators in Duisburg.


Investigators stipulates that mother and daughter Terboven over a period of six or seven years had not had contact, but that relationship lately had improved and that Ingeborg year before - with their small children - had been visiting her for two weeks. Investigations manager points out that it is not easy to get on, when investigations must be carried out in utmost secrecy. But the public prosecutor in Ludwigsburg is not stopping. Now he wants to ensure that there is no Josef Terboven, hiding behind his wife's longtime lover. The man's background and private life must end turned! And what is it really kind of company she works for? Owned the previous big Nazis, what is produced and where exported products? Jobs old Nazis there? Who is your lover? 21 January 1966 it sent new orders to the state Criminal Police Central about it - fast - must be examined whether the current lover already before or during the war, had connections with family Terboven. Had he perhaps been a classmate of the recent national commissioner? Some such indications did not come for the day. There in the showed that enkas friend - three years earlier - had been under investigation for involvement in mass killings committed during the war. Presumably he was colonel in the secret field police.


On April 6, 1966 death certificate and autopsy translated statement by mail from Oslo. Crime Chief Lars L'Abée-Lund makes it in a covering letter clearly that Terboven undoubtedly put an end to his own life, when he at 23 pm on the 8th May 1945 sat on a barrel of explosives in bunkers its Skaugum. A part of the left elbow was found. It had the same complex fracture damage Terboven sustained in a plane crash before the war.


Same day getting prosecutor news from investigators. Enka has been seriously ill, and going in and out of different centers, with nothing seems to help prevent a serious skin condition in his face. But in late May sees it, according to a new report, seem to go better with the skin disease. Three weeks earlier she had been collected by his daughter. Since they were lost. Investigators suspect they may have gone on package deals to exotic places, but must affirm that they simply do not know.

Finally concludes a public prosecutor that the reference to "dad" does not have anything with Josef Terboven to do - but that it refers to Horst. After Ingeborg has given birth to a son, he recently became "dad" again. In a final report by 9:11. 1966 must prosecutor in Ludwigsburg affirm that it all had disintegrated. A colleague closes on 21 November 1966 the whole affair with a laconic remark that it is now - at least - was collected much useful information about Nazi crimes in Norway.

Berit Nøkleby laughs information about a large-scale action to find a living Terboven - 20 years after he took his own life:
- The suicide was actually investigated thoroughly by Norwegian police, and many details were immediately published by the Norwegian media. Yet it appeared periodically after the war up rumors and allegations that Terboven not killed in the explosion at Skaugum. Obviously he did it, says historian Berit Nøkleby.


Frankfurter Rundschau 10.10.1964 Investigation Report, Bundesarchiv / Ludwigsburg Berit Nøkleby: "Josef Terboven. Hitler's man in Norway. " Gyldendal Norwegian Publishing, Oslo 1992


Hessian monitoring service conducted in 1955 an investigation, because Ilse Terboven - along with former big Nazis from her late husband's acquaintances - were suspected of participating in the building of "illegal Cells". She should also have received financial support from the same guys. But the evidence crumbled, and Ilse Terboven was never even charged with, it goes forward documents from the investigation. Terboven closest friend - Gauleiter Karl Kaufmann in Hamburg - was in the early 50s involved in the so-called "Gauleiter circuit", which was accused to organize a Nazi takeover of power in West Germany. A decidedly protagonist was Josef Goebbels former secretary and longtime henchman, Werner Naumann. He must have known Ilse Stahl Terboven since she in 1933 was appointed secretary of the Propaganda Ministry. Ilse Terboven died in 1972
Sota ei päätä kuka on oikeassa, vain sen että kuka on jäljellä.
War does not decide who is right but only those who are left.

J. Duncan
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Re: Ilse Stahl

Post by J. Duncan » 24 May 2016 10:05

Fascinating report Helge and great private / personal photos of the Reichsminister. Terboven was a heavy drinker / alcoholic which most contemporary accounts attest. A hard man.

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Annelie
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Re: Ilse Stahl

Post by Annelie » 24 May 2016 12:33

As J Duncan says...fascinating. Reads like an sad fiction novel.

Thanks Helge.

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