WW1 Shovels

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dfdenizyaran
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WW1 Shovels

#1

Post by dfdenizyaran » 12 Aug 2012, 21:21

Greetings,
I just got these shovels. The rusty one does not have any visible marks, maybe because of too much pitting, where should I look for markings. Green one is marked "1916". Metal is in good condition. Color isnt original, right? . Sold from Dardanelles. What do you think of origins?
Demirhan.

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John G.
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Re: WW1 Shovels

#2

Post by John G. » 13 Aug 2012, 15:59

Demirham,
The hardest thing about identify these shovels is that Germany made and exported these shovels to numerous countries and several other countries copied the German shovel almost exactly....without more markings, one might "assume" they were originally "German-made", but who actually used them is hard to say....(but if from Dardanells- probably Turkey!)
The "green paint" certianly wasn't the 1914 paint job, but probably original for the last time it was issued....

These would have remained in Service well into the 1950s/60s....(even later) in some European Armies....
John G.


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MG1918
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Re: WW1 Shovels

#3

Post by MG1918 » 25 Aug 2012, 07:03

The 'green' on the last shovel is almost certainly Turkish paint. Although we should all be aware that buying ex-Turkish surplus does sometimes reap rewards. A collector in France bought a small shovel from another collector, of Turkish origin, and it turned out to be the small shovel example as used by machine gun troops. Incidentally I am looking for one of those myself!! Anyway he did not pay much for it. To the best of my knowledge and confirmed by the ones I have seen original German shovels are stamped on the head, usually top left on the reverse side. Good luck.
Mark
Mark Finneran
''Seeking all MG items, parts, manuals, detail, MG accessories and original tactics/notes for the WW1 Imperial German Army MG08 & MG08/15. Also looking for T Gewehr & the 13mm ammunition please''

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JTV
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Re: WW1 Shovels

#4

Post by JTV » 29 Aug 2012, 06:22

The green painted shovel head might be from Russian World War 1 era field shovel. I have one Russian field shovel that is similar and has what I assume is the manufacturing year (1915) marked in exactly the same place. Mine has also marking "P.K.A" in cyrillic characters in the location that I marked in attached photo.

Jarkko
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tool_markings_001.jpg
Location worth checking?
tool_markings_001.jpg (121.51 KiB) Viewed 2852 times

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MG1918
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Re: WW1 Shovels

#5

Post by MG1918 » 29 Aug 2012, 06:37

That paint scheme also features on a Russian maxim in our local museum so we could be getting even closer to the origin!
Mark
Mark Finneran
''Seeking all MG items, parts, manuals, detail, MG accessories and original tactics/notes for the WW1 Imperial German Army MG08 & MG08/15. Also looking for T Gewehr & the 13mm ammunition please''

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JTV
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Re: WW1 Shovels

#6

Post by JTV » 29 Aug 2012, 20:18

Mark Finneran wrote:That paint scheme also features on a Russian maxim in our local museum so we could be getting even closer to the origin!
I would avoid making too much conclusions about the paint - during the last almost century or so green paint has been popular for painting equipment for quite a few armies. Attached is photo showing my Russian field shovel, which seems to be basically identical. As you can see it has also been painted green, but probably by Finnish Army in post World War 2 era - Finnish Army added the hole to blade of the shovel circa 1941, when it introduced belt hook system for carrying field shovels. As far as I am concerned the wooden handle in mine may have been replaced even several times before it got as it is now - impossible to say for sure.

Jarkko
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Russian_field_shovel_1915_01.jpg
Russian WW1 era field shovel used by Finnish Army in WW2.
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dfdenizyaran
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Re: WW1 Shovels

#7

Post by dfdenizyaran » 30 Aug 2012, 16:51

JTV wrote:The green painted shovel head might be from Russian World War 1 era field shovel. I have one Russian field shovel that is similar and has what I assume is the manufacturing year (1915) marked in exactly the same place. Mine has also marking "P.K.A" in cyrillic characters in the location that I marked in attached photo.

Jarkko
I was suspecting something was there at the location you have mentioned. I usually dont disturb these things, but since its not in perfect shape, I cleaned the paint at that point . And it says KW. (actually Russian letter that looks like W.) I wonder when these arrived. During the WW1 Germans gave the Ottoman Empire captured Mosin–Nagant rifles, maybe more equipment arrived. Or bought from Soviet Russia at the early 1930, with t-26 tanks..

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