The "lost" battle of Mersa el Brega, Libyan desert, 31 March

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Urmel
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Re: The "lost" battle of Mersa el Brega, Libyan desert, 31 March

#301

Post by Urmel » 29 Nov 2015, 14:06

Doesn't say, unfortunately.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

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Re: The "lost" battle of Mersa el Brega, Libyan desert, 31 March

#302

Post by ClintHardware » 03 Dec 2015, 19:54

Urmel thanks for the data about MGB2 casualties.

A question that remains is that Rau told Schorm of two wounded NCOs within his column from morning attacks by Luftwaffe aircraft bombing and then machine gunning - perhaps they were Panzerjäger Abteilung 605 NCOs, and later the 1st RNF shot dead an officer that seemed to be from a panzer at about 1800 hours as he was asking for their surrender - so does anyone know of other unit reports of casualties on the 31st March?
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Re: The "lost" battle of Mersa el Brega, Libyan desert, 31 March

#303

Post by Old_Fossil » 04 Mar 2016, 00:56

MarkN wrote:
And finally, the passages from the Australian Official History which would suggest even more tanks in Cyrenaica than I calculated above.


...later, refering to 9th April...
The fortress had meanwhile received two important reinforcements by sea—the 107th R.H.A. (bringing the fortress's field artillery up to four regiments) and portion of the 4th Royal Tank Regiment, with four infantry (heavy) tanks.
Sorry to jump in here late but this entry had me wondering how the British unloaded 25 ton Matilda tanks at Tobruk. The Italian cranes were limited to 20 tons (IIRC) and had been sabotaged before they were captured. Did the British bring in new cranes, have a ship like Ankara with heavy lift cranes of its own, or something else?
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Re: The "lost" battle of Mersa el Brega, Libyan desert, 31 March

#304

Post by Urmel » 04 Mar 2016, 09:31

The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

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Re: The "lost" battle of Mersa el Brega, Libyan desert, 31 March

#305

Post by Orwell1984 » 04 Mar 2016, 16:24

For those interested in the history of the early use of TLCs in the Mediterranean (including their use as part of the WDLF [Western Desert Lighter Flotilla] to supply Tobruk] this website and the book associated with it are invaluable:

http://www.forgottenflotilla.com/

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Re: The "lost" battle of Mersa el Brega, Libyan desert, 31 March

#306

Post by Old_Fossil » 04 Mar 2016, 16:26

Do you know when and how many of these tank landing craft were sent to the Middle East?
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Re: The "lost" battle of Mersa el Brega, Libyan desert, 31 March

#307

Post by Orwell1984 » 04 Mar 2016, 16:37

Old_Fossil wrote:
Do you know when and how many of these tank landing craft were sent to the Middle East?
According to Bendon in his book " The Forgotten Flotilla", 12 TLCs arrived in the Mediterranean in February 1941.

He notes on page 148
Since the formation of the force [WDLF] in July, the "A" lighters [another name for the TLCs] had carried close to 3000 tons of supplies to Tobruk, They had also transported 48 heavy tanks, seven light tanks as well as guns and motor transport. In those four months [July August September October 1941], five of the original ten TLCs in the WDLF had been lost negotiating Bomb Alley to maintain the Spud Run
Last edited by Orwell1984 on 04 Mar 2016, 16:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The "lost" battle of Mersa el Brega, Libyan desert, 31 March

#308

Post by Old_Fossil » 04 Mar 2016, 16:38

Orwell1984 wrote:
For those interested in the history of the early use of TLCs in the Mediterranean (including their use as part of the WDLF [Western Desert Lighter Flotilla] to supply Tobruk] this website and the book associated with it are invaluable:

http://www.forgottenflotilla.com/
Question answered. Thanks for the link!
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Re: The "lost" battle of Mersa el Brega, Libyan desert, 31 March

#309

Post by Attrition » 10 Mar 2016, 11:34

Nafziger Orders of Battle Collection: Finding Aid Nafziger G. 2012 Combined Arms Research Library (U.S. Army Command and General Staff College) Fort Leavenworth, KS http://cgsc.cdmhost.com/cdm/singleitem/ ... 1277/rec/7 oclc 528648446

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Re: The "lost" battle of Mersa el Brega, Libyan desert, 31 March

#310

Post by Urmel » 10 Mar 2016, 12:05

Just keep in mind its not error free.
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

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Re: The "lost" battle of Mersa el Brega, Libyan desert, 31 March

#311

Post by Attrition » 10 Mar 2016, 14:21

Yes, I've noticed a few but it's helpful.

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Re: The "lost" battle of Mersa el Brega, Libyan desert, 31 March

#312

Post by Fudge » 08 Jan 2017, 14:02

Mechili 2nd Armoured Div

Hi,

Can anyone tell me how the 2nd Div headquarters staff escaped from Mechili to Tobruk on the 7th April 1941.
My uncle was an MP with 2nd Div headquarters staff, despite visiting Kew, Bovingdon and the RMP Museum I have failed to find any information or stories on the escape. It seems possible that everyone wants to forget the 2nd Armoured Division defeat. Certainly the lack of information suggests the shame of the defeat has limited the available information. How did the HQ staff break through the cordon that had been thrown around the fort at Mechili and then make their way through the desert to Tobruk. Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

Fudge

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Re: The "lost" battle of Mersa el Brega, Libyan desert, 31 March

#313

Post by ClintHardware » 13 Jan 2017, 00:33

Fudge wrote:Mechili 2nd Armoured Div

Hi,

Can anyone tell me how the 2nd Div headquarters staff escaped from Mechili to Tobruk on the 7th April 1941.
My uncle was an MP with 2nd Div headquarters staff, despite visiting Kew, Bovingdon and the RMP Museum I have failed to find any information or stories on the escape. It seems possible that everyone wants to forget the 2nd Armoured Division defeat. Certainly the lack of information suggests the shame of the defeat has limited the available information. How did the HQ staff break through the cordon that had been thrown around the fort at Mechili and then make their way through the desert to Tobruk. Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

Fudge
Hi Fudge
I have PM'd you concerning details that may help you.
Clint
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