Swiss artillery in WW2

Discussions on the Allies and the Neutral States in general and the countries that does not have sections of their own.
Sturm78
Member
Posts: 17927
Joined: 02 Oct 2008, 18:18
Location: Spain

Swiss artillery in WW2

#1

Post by Sturm78 » 13 Dec 2012, 17:00

Hi all,

I am looking for information and/or images about the 20mm Flab.kan.38 swiss AA gun.

Manufacturer, specifications, number manufactured, .....

These are the only three images that I have could found about this rare gun.
The guns of these three images seem to have a different mount each. :?

Why the Swiss Army adopted this gun next to 20mm Oerlikon AA gun? :?
Which was the designation of 20mm Oerlikon in Swiss Army: Flab.Kan.37 or Flab.Kan.38 ? :?

Thanks in advance. Sturm78
Attachments
20mm Flab.Kan.38 Swiss AA gun--.jpg
20mm Flab.Kan.38 Swiss AA gun--.jpg (67.04 KiB) Viewed 8573 times
20mm Flab.Kan.38 Swiss AA gun.jpg
20mm Flab.Kan.38 Swiss AA gun-.jpg

User avatar
phylo_roadking
Member
Posts: 17488
Joined: 01 May 2006, 00:31
Location: Belfast

Re: Swiss artillery in WW2

#2

Post by phylo_roadking » 13 Dec 2012, 20:47

Which was the designation of 20mm Oerlikon in Swiss Army: Flab.Kan.37 or Flab.Kan.38 ?
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate ... CGIQ7gEwCQ
Before the Second World War, in 1937, acquired the 363 Switzerland Oerlikon cannons and set these as 20mm Flab Kan Oe 37 with 15-round box magazines on one infantry guns.
However, the same paragrph goes on to say -
After the replacement of the arms factory of + Bern + produced 20 mm Flab Kan 38 and 20 mm Hispano Flab Kan 43/44 , a gas operated at a much higher rate of fire, it was used for civil works security.
So - the "Bern factory" is...? Or does that mean the 38 just followed the 37 as a replacement from the same factory?

THIS -

Image

...is captioned as the Oerlikon 20mm weapon here - http://translate.google.co.uk/translate ... stung.html Seems quite different from the weapon above.
Twenty years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs....
Lord, please keep Kevin Bacon alive...


User avatar
Ironmachine
Member
Posts: 5821
Joined: 07 Jul 2005, 11:50
Location: Spain

Re: Swiss artillery in WW2

#3

Post by Ironmachine » 13 Dec 2012, 21:01

Some specifications:
Manufacturer: W + F (Waffenfabrik Bern)
Range, m: 2,000
Weight, kg: 380
Vo, m/s: 1,010
Ammo: belt
Rounds/min: 400
Data taken from http://www.schweiz1940.ch/common-en/swi ... t/flab.htm
This webpage also gives the designation 20 mm Flab Kan 37 for the Oerlikon gun.

User avatar
Marcus
Member
Posts: 33963
Joined: 08 Mar 2002, 23:35
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Swiss artillery in WW2

#4

Post by Marcus » 13 Dec 2012, 21:06

Please remember to include the source of the images posted, thanks.

/Marcus

User avatar
Ironmachine
Member
Posts: 5821
Joined: 07 Jul 2005, 11:50
Location: Spain

Re: Swiss artillery in WW2

#5

Post by Ironmachine » 13 Dec 2012, 21:11


User avatar
phylo_roadking
Member
Posts: 17488
Joined: 01 May 2006, 00:31
Location: Belfast

Re: Swiss artillery in WW2

#6

Post by phylo_roadking » 13 Dec 2012, 21:13

So...

20mm Flab.Kan 37 = Oerlikon

20mm Flab.Kan 38 = Waffenfabrik Bern
Twenty years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs....
Lord, please keep Kevin Bacon alive...

User avatar
Ironmachine
Member
Posts: 5821
Joined: 07 Jul 2005, 11:50
Location: Spain

Re: Swiss artillery in WW2

#7

Post by Ironmachine » 13 Dec 2012, 21:15

More specifications, this time from http://waffen.festung-oberland.ch/style ... affen.html (The weight and the range are slightly different from the other source)
20mm Flabkanone 38
Kaliber: 20 mm
Hersteller: Waffenfabrik Bern/Waffenfabrik Solothurn
Fabrikation: 1939-47
Lafette: Sockel, verschraubbar
Rohr: 1830 mm
Verschluss: Rückstosslader
Gewicht: 400 kg fahrbereit
Bedienung: 5 Mann
Kadenz: 400 Schuss/min
Reichweite: 1500 m
There is also a photo of a surviving example in that page.

Sturm78
Member
Posts: 17927
Joined: 02 Oct 2008, 18:18
Location: Spain

Re: Swiss artillery in WW2

#8

Post by Sturm78 » 14 Dec 2012, 15:14

Marcus wrote
Please remember to include the source of the images posted, thanks.

Opppss :oops:

The source of my images :
http://www.google.es/imgres?imgurl=http ... m=1&itbs=1

http://www.google.es/imgres?imgurl=http ... m=1&itbs=1

Thank you for your help, Ironmachine.

I think your image was taken in 1970s years, not wartime.
Any adittional wartime image of this gun will be wellcome.

It seems that 20mm Flab.Kan.38 had a mount with three legs, but the gun of my second image seems to have a pedestal mount. :?

This gun also seems to use a high capacity box-magazine.
Does anyone know the capacity of this magazine? I guess this would give to this gun a great actual firing rate.

Regards Sturm78

Sturm78
Member
Posts: 17927
Joined: 02 Oct 2008, 18:18
Location: Spain

Re: Swiss artillery in WW2

#9

Post by Sturm78 » 18 Dec 2012, 14:52

Hi all,

I am looking for wartime images of 10.5cm Hb 42 (Bofors) swiss howitzer

I found this image (1) here ( http://www.palba.cz/forumfoto/displayim ... pos=-30379 ) identified as a 10.5cm Hb 42 howitzer , but I think this is a different weapon: box trail, very rare wheels, circular platform,.... 8O :?

Any idea?

This is the only wartime image (2) I have could find of a Hb 42:

Thanks in advance.
Sturm78
Attachments
10.5cm Hb 42 -.jpg
10.5cm Hb 42 Bofors swiss howitzer. Manufactured under licence by K+W Thun.jpg
10.5cm Hb 42 Bofors swiss howitzer. Manufactured under licence by K+W Thun.jpg (124.59 KiB) Viewed 8424 times

User avatar
Ironmachine
Member
Posts: 5821
Joined: 07 Jul 2005, 11:50
Location: Spain

Re: Swiss artillery in WW2

#10

Post by Ironmachine » 18 Dec 2012, 19:38

The gun in the first photo (the one with box trail, very rare wheels, circular platform) is indeed a 10,5 cm Hb 42 L 22. The difference is due to it being a prototype fitted with a experimental device to rotate on a fixed position. And in fact it is a wartime photo, having been taken in december 1944:
gun.JPG
The source is http://www.armeemuseum.ch/uploads/media ... f_2-03.pdf, the information bulletin of the Swiss Army Museum.
Regards.

PS: many thanks to forum member iffig for originally posting this photo and its source in The official AHF Allied & Neutral Armies quiz thread.

Sturm78
Member
Posts: 17927
Joined: 02 Oct 2008, 18:18
Location: Spain

Re: Swiss artillery in WW2

#11

Post by Sturm78 » 18 Dec 2012, 21:16

Thank you very much for your help, Ironmachine.

Do you have any other wartime image of a standard 10.5cm Hb 42 ??

Sturm78

User avatar
Ironmachine
Member
Posts: 5821
Joined: 07 Jul 2005, 11:50
Location: Spain

Re: Swiss artillery in WW2

#12

Post by Ironmachine » 18 Dec 2012, 22:40

No, can't help you with that.
Regards.

Sturm78
Member
Posts: 17927
Joined: 02 Oct 2008, 18:18
Location: Spain

Re: Swiss artillery in WW2

#13

Post by Sturm78 » 13 Jan 2013, 16:57

Hi all,

Two images of 15cm sch Hb 42 (Bofors) swiss howitzer

Are these his original wheels or this is a modernized postwar version?
Does anyone know how many were manufactured?

Any other wartime image is welcome
Thanks in advance. Sturm78
Attachments
15cm sch Hb 42 Bofors swiss howitzer.jpg
15cm sch Hb 42 Bofors swiss howitzer.jpg (101.7 KiB) Viewed 8198 times
15cm sch Hb 42 Bofors swiss howitzer manufactured under licence.jpg

User avatar
Alp Guard
Member
Posts: 714
Joined: 04 Mar 2005, 15:34
Location: Basel / Switzerland

Re: Swiss artillery in WW2

#14

Post by Alp Guard » 20 Oct 2013, 14:39

Ironmachine wrote:Another photo:
Image
From http://amicale-dca.ch/zwischen_den_wk_i_und_ii.htm
This Picture must be from the 1970's. look at the helmets. (I got one of these :wink: )

User avatar
Ironmachine
Member
Posts: 5821
Joined: 07 Jul 2005, 11:50
Location: Spain

Re: Swiss artillery in WW2

#15

Post by Ironmachine » 20 Oct 2013, 17:19

Yes. If you had followed the link I provided, you would have found that the photo caption was: "Die 20 mm Flab Kan 38 W+F im Einsatz (hier in den 70er Jahren im Felddienst der Flab RS 46)."

Post Reply

Return to “The Allies and the Neutral States in general”