190 mm italian coastal gun in WW II

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ROLAND1369
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190 mm italian coastal gun in WW II

Post by ROLAND1369 » 28 Jan 2013 15:33

Has anyone got any pictures of the 190 MM 39 cal coastal gun used by Italy during WW II. There were aparently 8 emplaced at Tripoli during WW II ?

Dili
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Re: 190 mm italian coastal gun in WW II

Post by Dili » 29 Jan 2013 06:40

Yes in Fort Gargaresc(or Gargarese, Gargares or Gargaresh or ..esk or ) part of 30° Raggr. Artiglieria Contraerei e da Posizione, it was considered a bad emplacement easily seen from sea and the guns were too close from each other , there was also a battery 190/39 in Napoli and from memeory i think one in Pola also.
Some WW1 period photos: http://www.marieni-saredo.it/6.1%20LIBIA.htm

The gun is the Skoda 190mm L42 1908.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNAust_75-42_Skoda.htm

Only photo i have seen is this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/21298246@N ... 3482947751

Ondrej Filip
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Re: 190 mm italian coastal gun in WW II

Post by Ondrej Filip » 29 Jan 2013 10:52

Dili wrote: ... and from memeory i think one in Pola also.
I think there are only 150 mm/47 Skoda guns from the battleship Tegetthoff at Pola. They looks similar with its casemate mountings.
----

Dili
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Re: 190 mm italian coastal gun in WW II

Post by Dili » 29 Jan 2013 12:18

I checked my data and there was a battery called Cappa with 2x 190/39 .

Also here http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milizia_Ma ... rtiglieria.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/16191207/Batt ... do-Clerici

There was also a pontoon.

Ondrej Filip
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Re: 190 mm italian coastal gun in WW II

Post by Ondrej Filip » 29 Jan 2013 13:04

Dili wrote:I checked my data and there was a battery called Cappa with 2x 190/39 .

Also here http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milizia_Ma ... rtiglieria.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/16191207/Batt ... do-Clerici

There was also a pontoon.
You are right. Do you know the location? Any former Autro-Hungarian battery? Unfortunately, Scribd has no free access.

ludvig
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Re: 190 mm italian coastal gun in WW II

Post by ludvig » 29 Jan 2013 15:40

Hello ,
After some digging :
Austrian coastal defences :
2 x 190 /42 Monte Cope ( " Cappa " )
2 x 190 /42 Punta Salvore , from SMS Maria Thereza
Italian coastal defences :
2 x 190 /39 Monte Cope
2 x 190/ 39 Zuisdilla ( Sebenico )
2 x 190 /39 Napoli ( " Caracciolo " )
4 x 190 /39 Gargaresc ( Tripoli )
4 x 190 /39 Sidi Azus ( Tripoli )
JNA :
2 x 190/42 Monte Cope
Appears on an OOB from 1948 scrapped in 1960's

ludvig

ROLAND1369
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Re: 190 mm italian coastal gun in WW II

Post by ROLAND1369 » 29 Jan 2013 15:51

Thank you for your replies, however I have been unable to find any photos of the fort or the battery on the referenced site. I too have seen that picture however it is listed and appears to be a 47 caliber weapon while the coastal guns are listed as 39 caliber weapons. as to the location of the Pola battery I have located what appears to be the position on whatthe Italians call Monte Cope. The pictures on the attachment are all from Google Earth.
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ludvig
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Re: 190 mm italian coastal gun in WW II

Post by ludvig » 29 Jan 2013 19:09

Hello again ,
1) the 15 cm L 50 K10 Skoda naval gun have two recoil cylinders above the gun barrel , but the 19 cm L 42 naval gun have the whole recoil system under the gun barrel . So the flickr.com link is the correct one 19 cm. The 19 cm L 42 Skoda looks as an 17 cm SKL/40 with the short casemate shield .
2) There is a good photo of 19 cm Küstenkanone L /42 on Monte Cope in Erwin a. Grestenberger : Die k.u.k. Festungsartillerie 1867 - 1918 page 176
3) the armed barge with 2 x 190 /39 is G.M. 269
4) photos of Italian coast artillery version is good question !

ludvig

Dili
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Re: 190 mm italian coastal gun in WW II

Post by Dili » 30 Jan 2013 05:36

Unfortunately, Scribd has no free access.
The free text i linked there lists it.



Ludvig what is your source for the Sebenico(was it placed there by Italians in 1941 or after or was already there from Yugoslav Kingdom?) and Sidi Azus batteries ? I have always thought mistakenly it seems that all guns were in Gargaresc.

ludvig
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Re: 190 mm italian coastal gun in WW II

Post by ludvig » 30 Jan 2013 12:07

Hello Dili ,
Source : Carlo Alfredo Clerici : Le difese costiere italiane nelle due guerre mondiali, Storia Militare, Parma 1996 .

TRIPOLI ( page 114 )
R.E. senza numero ,loc. Gargarese , IV - 190/39
R.E.senza numero ,loc. Sidi Azus , IV - 190/39
R.E.senza numero , loc. Fortino a Mare , III - 76/40
R.E.senza numero , loc.Fortino B , IV - 76/40
Milmart senza numero , loc. testa Molo sottoflutto , I - 76/30
5 Batt. Milmart, loc. Sciara Sciatt , IV - 102 /35

SEBENICO ( page 116 )
Isola di Provicchio : II - 150/40 , II - 105/42 , I - 105/42
Isola di Zuri , Batteria di Zuisdilla , II - 190/42
Isola di Zuri , Batteria di Vela Glava , II - 150 /40
Isola di Zuri , Batteria di Zacevo , II - 190/42

ludvig

Dili
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Re: 190 mm italian coastal gun in WW II

Post by Dili » 30 Jan 2013 14:34

Thanks ludvig.

Dili
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Re: 190 mm italian coastal gun in WW II

Post by Dili » 29 Jun 2014 00:56

I believe this could be photos of 190/39 gun - photos legend says it is Tripoli - source: http://dati.acs.beniculturali.it/SecondaGuerraMondiale/
31996.jpg
31989.jpg
32015.jpg
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Last edited by Dili on 29 Jun 2014 01:11, edited 1 time in total.

Dili
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Re: 190 mm italian coastal gun in WW II

Post by Dili » 29 Jun 2014 01:01

Continuation:
32003.jpg
32004.jpg
32011.jpg
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ROLAND1369
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Re: 190 mm italian coastal gun in WW II

Post by ROLAND1369 » 03 Jul 2014 12:57

Thank you Dilli I am convinced after a long exam aof a pic from an Italian Navy site of a 190 mm M1908 austrian gun as used by the Italians that you have indeed uncovered Pics of this rare Coastal gun. I base it on the Breech Mechanism being of the Krupp sliding wedge, the large recoil cylinders below the barrel which extend almost to the end of the breech, the small recoil cylinders above the barrell set well forward of the breech, the shoulder rests on the side of the carriage, and most convincing the size of the cartrige case as well as the pecular beveling of the throat of the case.

Dili
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Re: 190 mm italian coastal gun in WW II

Post by Dili » 03 Jul 2014 17:36

Thanks you Roland, here is one more not so clear photo of it firing.
31983.jpg
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