A mysterious 152 H/30

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ain92
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A mysterious 152 H/30

Post by ain92 » 31 Mar 2013 16:10

ImageImageImage
There's no such a gun in the Shirokorad or any other sources as 152mm howitzer M1930. The carriage looks basically the same as M1909/30, and the breech-block too (1, 2), but the barrel is significantly longer (L16.4 instead of L14.2) and it has a muzzle brake of the same type as ML-20 M1937. However, it's definirely not 152mm gun M1910/34 because the barrel is twice shorter and the artillery piece exhibited is absolutely dissimilar to it. Here're three pictures of M1910 gun:
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So, could it be a Finnish modification?
With best regards, Ilya.

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Juha Tompuri
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Re: A mysterious 152 H/30

Post by Juha Tompuri » 31 Mar 2013 17:01

According to book "Itsenäisen Suomen Kenttätykit 1918 - 1995" ("Field Guns of Independent Finland 1918 - 1995") by Col Jyri Paulaharju, Fin ns captured one gun of this type during the Continuation War, but it was never used by Finns.
Paulaharju suggests the gun being a rare, sort of hybrid test gun.

Regards, Juha
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JTV
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Re: A mysterious 152 H/30

Post by JTV » 01 Apr 2013 18:55

Tykistömuseon 87 tykkiä (87 Guns of Artillery Museum) by Unto Partanen gives very much the same information about this being some sort of experimental Soviet howitzer design which was captured during Continuation War and did not see Finnish use. But it gives also some additional details. Apparently the gun barrel is structurally lighter design than the one used in 152 H/09 and has quite similar counter-weight system as 155 H/17 (French Canon de 155 C, mle 1917 Schneider). Its rubber-covered wheels are identical to ones used in Soviet 107-mm field gun m/10-30. The muzzle brake was (re-)installed by Finnish Valtion Tykkitehdas (State Artillery Factory) in year 1944, but may have been part of the original design.

This book also lists the barrel lenght as L/14. With 40-kg projectile the muzzle velocity was supposedly 385 m/sec, which gave maximum range of 9.5 km. Minimum and maximum elevations were -1 degrees / +42 degrees and traverse +/- 3 degrees. Combat weight 3,000 kg.

Jarkko

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Re: A mysterious 152 H/30

Post by Juha Tompuri » 02 Apr 2013 18:15

JTV wrote:This book also lists the barrel lenght as L/14. With 40-kg projectile the muzzle velocity was supposedly 385 m/sec, which gave maximum range of 9.5 km. Minimum and maximum elevations were -1 degrees / +42 degrees and traverse +/- 3 degrees. Combat weight 3,000 kg.
Paulaharju book gives the:
barrel lenght L/14.2
muzzle velocity 391 m/s
projectile weight 40 kg
max range 9.85 km
elevations -0 and +41 degrees
traverse +/- 5.7 degrees
combat weight 2725kg

The book also mentions that the gun was being repaired at the state gun factory.

Regards, Juha
Last edited by Juha Tompuri on 02 Apr 2013 20:50, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: typo corrected

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Re: A mysterious 152 H/30

Post by ain92 » 21 Jun 2013 13:50

Finally I found a probable identification if this gun:
Image
In 1967 album "History of KBM" (now Motovilikha Plants) there's a page about 152-mm howitzer "KM" (Kapital'naya modernizatsiya — capital improvement of 6-inch howitzer M1909). The caption in Russian means "Photo No. 13. 152mm howitzer — a capital modernisation of 152mm how. M1909 (development prototype)." The howitzer never seen service.
With best regards, Ilya.

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Re: A mysterious 152 H/30

Post by Esa Muikku » 21 Jun 2013 14:48

Thanks a lot ain92! That howitzer seems to be one of most precious guns and a real rarity in our inventory.

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Re: A mysterious 152 H/30

Post by ain92 » 26 Jun 2013 16:27

Esa Muikku wrote:Thanks a lot ain92! That howitzer seems to be one of most precious guns and a real rarity in our inventory.
Do you work in the museum?

And could anyone provide photos of all markings on the gun?
With best regards, Ilya.

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Re: A mysterious 152 H/30

Post by Juha Tompuri » 26 Jun 2013 19:28

Hi!
ain92 wrote: could anyone provide photos of all markings on the gun?
I took some photos about a month ago, but unfortunately don't have the photos(=camera) with me at the moment.

Regards, Juha

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Re: A mysterious 152 H/30

Post by Esa Muikku » 26 Jun 2013 21:36

ain92 wrote:
Esa Muikku wrote:Thanks a lot ain92! That howitzer seems to be one of most precious guns and a real rarity in our inventory.
Do you work in the museum?

And could anyone provide photos of all markings on the gun?
Hi ain92,

I am not. I just ment generally us Finns and Finnish artillery men.

I can visit the museum within two weeks (don't know the day yet) and take the photos you requested.

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Re: A mysterious 152 H/30

Post by ain92 » 26 Jun 2013 21:48

Helo again, Juha and Esa.
Of course I don't hurry anybody. If anyone could request some facts from the museum archives, I'm also interested in information, when and where it was captured. There could be a chance to trace the way of the howitzer becuse it's quite unusual for a development prototype to be captured 7-10 years after the test. I surmise the gun was kept for this time on the Rzhevsky artillery proving ground.
With best regards, Ilya.

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Re: A mysterious 152 H/30

Post by Esa Muikku » 26 Jun 2013 22:09

The book "Tykistömuseon 78 tykkiä" ("78 Guns Of The Artillery Museum") tells as follows:
- captured during the Continuation War
- barrel nr 34, carriage nr 1047
- manufactured in 1934

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Re: A mysterious 152 H/30

Post by ain92 » 26 Jun 2013 22:24

Esa Muikku wrote:The book "Tykistömuseon 78 tykkiä" ("78 Guns Of The Artillery Museum") tells as follows:
- captured during the Continuation War
- barrel nr 34, carriage nr 1047
- manufactured in 1934
- it's a very wide area ;-)
- thanks, but markings almost always include not only two numbers, but also a lot of useful things:
  • mass of the gun tube with and without the breech-block
  • some designation
  • factory sign (encircled diamond for Motovilikha)
    etc.
With best regards, Ilya.

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Re: A mysterious 152 H/30

Post by Esa Muikku » 27 Jun 2013 18:29

I will inform you when I have visited the museum (...unless somebody else will be there before me).

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Re: A mysterious 152 H/30

Post by Juha Tompuri » 19 Jul 2013 22:51

These photos I took last May:
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Re: A mysterious 152 H/30

Post by Juha Tompuri » 19 Jul 2013 22:59

Continuing:
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