ottoman "thunderbolt" troops

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
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Balrog
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ottoman "thunderbolt" troops

Post by Balrog » 17 Apr 2003 20:52

yes, i've read about an elite unit(supposedly) of the ottoman army in ww1 called thunderbolt troops. the article said that thye wore a strange helmet as part of their uniform. does anyone have any photos of these troops are any idea how effective they were in the war?

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Peter H
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Yildirim Corps

Post by Peter H » 19 Apr 2003 00:51

This was the Yildirim Corps(LightingBolt) raised in late 1917 to recapture Baghdad.It had a heavy German influence,with the German AsianKorps originally to be attached to it.It instead ended up fighting on the Palestine Front.

OOB Yilderim AG (J.Schulz)

As of September 1918

GHQ: Commander in Chief Marshall von Sanders
Chief of Staff: General Kiazim Pasha

GHQ Troops:
109, 110 Inf Rgts
13, 17th Depot Rgts
Yilderim Flying Command
[1st Pursuit and 302, 303, 304 Flight Detachments (=Sqns)]

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Peter H
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Post by Peter H » 19 Apr 2003 00:55

German style helmets were to be issued to the Yildirim.There's a photo in the topic below,but worn by postwar Germans:

http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=17763

I have seen a photo of such helmets being worn by Turkish troops,but these were prototypes worn at a formal parade.No helmets were ever issued for active service.

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Balrog
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Post by Balrog » 19 Apr 2003 12:53

those photos were great! the helmets looked really cool. i think the reason they were visiorless had to do with other religious considerations beside s prayer. i read an article which talked about the distictive ottoman pith helmet. the reason the helmets were visorless was because of the "muslim prohibition of having your eyes shielded from the sun." i'm not an expert on islam, so i don't know if that is one of the tenets. the pith hats were khaki, looked like something the britis would have worn, i'm not sure if they were "helmets" or just hats? thank you so much for the photos, really great. thank you moulded!

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Post by Ken » 19 Apr 2003 13:24

I know a lot about Islam.. never heard the sun thing.. lots of muslims wear sunglasses.. hehe.. especially Turks..

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Balrog
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Post by Balrog » 19 Apr 2003 13:38

yes, today the muslims in turkey are very secularized. i've never heard of that tenet except in the article on the ottoman pith hat. i'm hoping moulded will come back and explain to me about the pith hat. moulded, you out there?

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Peter H
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Post by Peter H » 20 Apr 2003 02:00

The 'pith helmet' was called the kabalak and in the Turkish tradition was cloth wrapped.Again all I can find on the lack of a visor was due to the Muslim prayer requirements.Incidentally all units had a mullah,much like Christain army Chaplains.

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Chavusch
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Post by Chavusch » 31 Aug 2006 14:06

M15/16 type German Helmets modified visorless Turk version ordered but only 5800 piece and rapidely canceled < nobody knows why>in generaly anti Western and anti modernisation opposition jerkheads < mostly civil advisors of Sultan! or other fundametalist monarchist`s > so funny reason was to make belive that steel pot is not permiting the soldiers prayer ! lately with sun visored special Turk models has arrived , but in genaraly those days ballistic protection of this kind primitive steel pots are not better than Kabalaks..

Those mentioned Turk type visored pots are largely seing post war British films in Japan soldiers use Burma, and soth east part of India..< I assume British captured WWI Palestina field used old Ottoman inventories

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Chavusch
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Post by Chavusch » 01 Sep 2006 20:42

Living example on Ebay, regards

regarhttp://cgi.ebay.com/TURKISH-HELMET-MOD- ... dZViewItem

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Mehmet Fatih
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Post by Mehmet Fatih » 01 Sep 2006 22:17

Balrog wrote:those photos were great! the helmets looked really cool. i think the reason they were visiorless had to do with other religious considerations beside s prayer. i read an article which talked about the distictive ottoman pith helmet. the reason the helmets were visorless was because of the "muslim prohibition of having your eyes shielded from the sun." i'm not an expert on islam, so i don't know if that is one of the tenets. the pith hats were khaki, looked like something the britis would have worn, i'm not sure if they were "helmets" or just hats? thank you so much for the photos, really great. thank you moulded!
It is not about the sun. It is about a part of Muslim prayer. The part called "sajdah" where you put your forehead on the ground. The explanation on e-bay is right.

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Chavusch
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Post by Chavusch » 01 Sep 2006 23:58

Mehmet Fatih wrote:
Balrog wrote:those photos were great! the helmets looked really cool. i think the reason they were visiorless had to do with other religious considerations beside s prayer. i read an article which talked about the distictive ottoman pith helmet. the reason the helmets were visorless was because of the "muslim prohibition of having your eyes shielded from the sun." i'm not an expert on islam, so i don't know if that is one of the tenets. the pith hats were khaki, looked like something the britis would have worn, i'm not sure if they were "helmets" or just hats? thank you so much for the photos, really great. thank you moulded!
It is not about the sun. It is about a part of Muslim prayer. The part called "sajdah" where you put your forehead on the ground. The explanation on e-bay is right.
I sent some correction letter to the sellers for more explanation,Sajdah things was used for reason and my personaliy opinion is wrong and non sense< u can take off and pray ..right? , there was two type Turk specified and designd helmet first one just same as German M15-16-or let say WWI and II type but cut off sun visor , and this pictured type types specialy designed and produced Damscus Turk Group Armis needs, which is lightweight for special speed needing Turkish infantry and Cavallry in hot desert climate , Normaly Turks used sun visored helmets and they were Islam to make Sajdah so I beleive that there is no reason for belive this rumors , today u can c them easly check it out Mehterean Company of Turkish Military Museums of Istanbul...< Ottoman Militaryt bands there r two Sipahi which is Flag Guards and walked on the front line ..both fully armored and wearing a Selchuck type sun visored old Middle age type copper or brass made helmets..

Finaly 3 type helmets used in Ottoman battale fields in WWI ,

1-M15-16 type German-Austrain helmets , some of tehem with strin plated < extra protection for MG crews and snipers< check it ourt Ankara Anafartalar Mehmetcik statue and Mudanya piece talks honor guards pictures.>

2- Same helmets with cut off sun visor types< only made 5800 piece > those r made by Germans as proto type for better using the gas masks! lately passed to Ottomans

3- Special designed Damas helmets for Ottoman used only for lightwighting reasons< many captured after surroundet Ottoman forces in todays Syria and sold by British to film industries and used by films as some Jap. helmets in WWII pacific theatres.

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Post by alkankizil@tr.net » 02 Sep 2006 05:34

"produced Damscus Turk Group Armis needs, which is lightweight for special speed needing Turkish infantry and Cavallry in hot desert climate "

Turkish Cavalry did not wear steel helmets in WW1. They wore a variation of the Kabalak which looked like British sailors' "souwestern". This usage continued right through the Turco-Greek War of 1920-22.

AK

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Chavusch
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Post by Chavusch » 02 Sep 2006 08:33

alkankizil@tr.net wrote:"produced Damscus Turk Group Armis needs, which is lightweight for special speed needing Turkish infantry and Cavallry in hot desert climate "

Turkish Cavalry did not wear steel helmets in WW1. They wore a variation of the Kabalak which looked like British sailors' "souwestern". This usage continued right through the Turco-Greek War of 1920-22.

AK
Kabalak is mainly known head wear but what I would like to remind here that Kabalak designed specialy by Enver Pacha himself so thats why called as Enveriye , yes indeed mostly Cavallry troops seing with Kabalak or Enveriye`s , but also Arabian head cover like plain piece of khaki fabric..similar foulard etc< like today Badawis wearing this stuff such as Yasser Arafat....> Turkish infantry definetly kept in their infantry those Turk type helmets in Akin Bolukleri < lihght mouinted artillery suported recon cavallry units > in this knowledge we should keep in our mind ,the cavallry means not only mounted troops but support and logical units such as Mekkare Taburlari < Camel& Mule &Horse mounted artillery and MG companies> plus in East Eoropean fields such as Galicia and Romania Turk cavallry worn German Telegrapher type Cavallry helmets too.

regards



Everyone could see some very well made replicas here.

http://WWW.usa-ima.com

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Mehmet Fatih
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Post by Mehmet Fatih » 02 Sep 2006 13:38

Chavusch wrote:Everyone could see some very well made replicas here.

http://WWW.usa-ima.com
Sarge, the link is dead.

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Cristiano de S.O Campos
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Post by Cristiano de S.O Campos » 02 Sep 2006 13:54

Website with turkish kabalaks


http://www.cascoscoleccion.com/australi/austrak1.htm


Cheers

Cristiano

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