What if the USSR attacked the Axis in 1942?

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PanzerKing
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What if the USSR attacked the Axis in 1942?

Post by PanzerKing » 30 Apr 2003 21:24

I myself think that the Axis nations would have been able to defeat the Russians, after all look what happened to Russia's forces in 41' and 42'. After two hard years of fighting, maybe Stalin would bow out and leave the war?

What if the US wasn't involved? Wouldn't that mean Germany and the Axis could turn their forces 95% towards Russia without the massive bombing raids destroying so much of those resources the Axis depended upon? With Germany geared for total war and on the defensive, with the poor performance of the Russians in Finland in mind, would they have the advantage?

Look at the statistics for the war itself...the Russians had tremendous losses through 44' and 45' while on the offensive.

There are so many factors I'm leaving out and more to points I'm forgetting, but damn I can't type all day!

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Toivo
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Post by Toivo » 01 May 2003 06:33

Well I guess you ment first of all "what if Axis didn't attack Soviets in 1941 and Russia attacks himself in 1942" :)
Anyways, attacking Russia was/is strategical mistake, mainly due logistics (and weather making it hard). Germans shouldn't attack Soviets and let them attack first (IF Stalin really had these plans what we don't know for sure). Ofcourse they'd lost a lot of ground but could defeat assaulting forces near their base, Berlin. Politically, it's hard to say what would such attack in Europe cause. Would it have been taken as assault against Nazis or against Europe as conquering. Also hard to say if Germans skiped Barbarossa plan in 1941, would GB (Europe part) had fallen by 1942. This would change things radically too. Doubt germans would have to fight on two fronts then since I don't see USA trying invasion to Europe in 1942. (Under having no second front I don't count possible N-Africa since this was more like adventure).

About Allies bombing German industry... well I think statistics have shown well enough this affected much more civilian areas than military or industrial. Or, rather, civilians had too hard casualities compared to effect on industry/military objects. Hard to say though. Again, if GB's Europe part had fallen I don't see possible way for US even if it was in war vs Axis to bomb German industry.

As for resources, if Stalin would attack, one main goal for his troops would have been probably be Romania due it's oil. We know what happened to Germany after it lost Romania in WW2.

Anyways, one good point is indeed capability of Russian troops. I think in 1941-42 they were in poor condition, both for equipments, weaponary and morale/training/experience. Due surprise attack they could manage way to Berlin but got probably kicked hard there, depending on how well german troops held together. With these troops defeated, russia would be in trouble but then again, Germany wouldn't be able to use chance either.

Oh well damn long post and I touched this subject only barely.

Regards

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Tim Smith
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Post by Tim Smith » 01 May 2003 10:17

If Stalin attacks in 1942, Russia has got to bear the full brunt of the war against Nazi Germany by herself, with only a little help from the UK and US - in June 1942 the British are being driven out of Tobruk back to El Alamein, and the Americans only have a few units still training in the UK.

Remember Stalin doesn't trust the British or Americans, and would fear that if he attacked Germany, they would make peace and leave him to fight Hitler alone.

Plus, after beating France, the German army was regarded as invincible - without the invasion of Russia in 1941 the world would still think that.

I think Stalin would prefer to wait at least until the Allies invaded France or Italy before he attacked - that way the Germans have to fight on two fronts. That would mean Russia would attack in 1944, not 1942.

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Toivo
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Post by Toivo » 01 May 2003 10:44

One more interesting aspect is that when you attack Europe from Russia, frontline get's thinner and thinner as troops move on. It's vice versa when you attack Russia - frontline gets stretched out. Now, in first variant it's questionable wether it helps attacker or defender (probably attacker - you can come en masse which was prefered assault type for russian officers), but in second one it's quite clear you will have troubled times with deploying troops and dealing with logistics (fuel, supplies), also hard to protect rear areas against partisans...

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Re: What if the USSR attacked the Axis in 1942?

Post by Cantankerous » 13 Feb 2021 04:37

Unknown to many people, the Red Air Force conducted air raids on Nazi Germany from air bases in August 1941. That month, Yermolayev Yer-2s and Ilyushin DB-3s conducted air raids on Berlin. Just imagine what the human cost of the Holocaust would have been like in the Red Air Force had conducted bomb attacks on trains carrying Jews and Poles to the death camps in Poland.

Links:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_DB-3
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yermolayev_Yer-2

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Terry Duncan
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Re: What if the USSR attacked the Axis in 1942?

Post by Terry Duncan » 13 Feb 2021 12:36

Cantankerous.

Cease this rather silly phase of thread necromancy you appear to be going through or you may find yourself with a lot more time on your hands.

Terry

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