Found: Raketenwasserbombenwerfer RWB 600 U
Found: Raketenwasserbombenwerfer RWB 600 U
A very special weapon that seems to be unknown to the Internet was found a few years back in Norway, and has now been saved by "Rogaland Krigshistoriske Museum" near Stavanger, Norway.
The parts were identified after Erik E found a report in the Norwegian national archive. It was written by a Norwegian police officer who was describing a weapon that Admiralty ordered shipped to England in 1946. The report contains several pictures that match the parts we saved perfectly.
The weapon is based on a modified "Schwere Ladungswerfer", it was modified to allow firing of rocket propelled depth charges. The barrel had a basket on the end where a standard size depth charge would lay, the rocket engine would go in the 21 cm caliber barrel.
The name of the weapon was unknown to us untill I found this in Waffen Revue no. 116:
The picture below is from the police officers report, see how it differs from the Schwere Ladungswerfer below it:
Here's a couple of pictures of the parts we saved, they could not be assembled properly due to heavy rust:
So far we have confirmed that at least two of these weapons were deployed in Norway, one in Stavanger and one in Egersund. A possible third in Bergen, but this has yet to be confirmed.
In both confirmed locations, the weapon was placed on land next to submarine nets protecting the harbour entrances.
Do any of you gurus out there have any more information or pictures of these weapons or ammunition?
The parts were identified after Erik E found a report in the Norwegian national archive. It was written by a Norwegian police officer who was describing a weapon that Admiralty ordered shipped to England in 1946. The report contains several pictures that match the parts we saved perfectly.
The weapon is based on a modified "Schwere Ladungswerfer", it was modified to allow firing of rocket propelled depth charges. The barrel had a basket on the end where a standard size depth charge would lay, the rocket engine would go in the 21 cm caliber barrel.
The name of the weapon was unknown to us untill I found this in Waffen Revue no. 116:
The picture below is from the police officers report, see how it differs from the Schwere Ladungswerfer below it:
Here's a couple of pictures of the parts we saved, they could not be assembled properly due to heavy rust:
So far we have confirmed that at least two of these weapons were deployed in Norway, one in Stavanger and one in Egersund. A possible third in Bergen, but this has yet to be confirmed.
In both confirmed locations, the weapon was placed on land next to submarine nets protecting the harbour entrances.
Do any of you gurus out there have any more information or pictures of these weapons or ammunition?
Looking for the following, original or copy, any language:
Renault FT-17 - Manual and parts list
Somua MCG5 - Manual
Panzer III or StuG III - Manual and parts list
8,8 cm Flak 36 - Parts list and electrical diagram
150 cm Scheinwerfer G150K - Manual
Renault FT-17 - Manual and parts list
Somua MCG5 - Manual
Panzer III or StuG III - Manual and parts list
8,8 cm Flak 36 - Parts list and electrical diagram
150 cm Scheinwerfer G150K - Manual
Re: Found: Raketenwasserbombenwerfer RWB 600 U
Another thread in here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=174593
See also this thread, with a photo of three RAG's at Agdenes, were the Rwb 600 is in the background:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=117259
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=174593
See also this thread, with a photo of three RAG's at Agdenes, were the Rwb 600 is in the background:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=117259
Re: Found: Raketenwasserbombenwerfer RWB 600 U
A different variant of the original "Schwere Ladungswerfer" is shown in "Small Arms, and special Artilery Weapon of the Third Reich" - T. Gander & P. Chamberlain, 1978 (also available in german: "Enzyklopädie deutscher Waffen 1939-1945 - Handwaffen, Artillerie, Beutewaffen, Sonderwaffen"):Asbjørn wrote:The weapon is based on a modified "Schwere Ladungswerfer".
Designation: 38cm sLdgW
Manufacturer: Rheinmetall-Borsig AG
# produced: 360
Total weight: 1600kg
Traverse: 360°
Elevation: +37° til +85°
Velocity: 107m/s
Lenght of barrel: 1680mm
Range: 1000m
Grenade: 38cm Wurfgranate 40*
Weight of grenade: 149kg*
Charge: 50kg*
Fuze: Wgr. Z 36 (standard fuze for german mortargrenades)*
Ignitor: Zdlg. C/98 Np. (pentritt)*
Propellent: Gudol (stage I 385g / stage II 175g)*
* Further description of the grenades can be found in "Waffen Revue" No.15
- Attachments
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- 38cm-spigot-granatwerfer.jpg (122.52 KiB) Viewed 3315 times
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- 38cm_sldgw_ammo_1.jpg (57.6 KiB) Viewed 3315 times
Last edited by Natter on 03 Dec 2014, 17:59, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Found: Raketenwasserbombenwerfer RWB 600 U
Thank you Natter, but that seems to be a regular "Schwere Ladungswerfer", a Heer weapon from 1941. The weapon I'm talking about was developed for the Kriegsmarine in 1944 and went in to production in 1945. It fires depth charges, not RTGs, Wurfgranaten or similar.
I have seen the picture from Agdenes, I think the weapon was only tested there. I have also seen the pictures posted by jos, it seems to be a damaged RWB 600 U, it's missing the basket. Anybody know where the pictures are from?
I have seen the picture from Agdenes, I think the weapon was only tested there. I have also seen the pictures posted by jos, it seems to be a damaged RWB 600 U, it's missing the basket. Anybody know where the pictures are from?
Looking for the following, original or copy, any language:
Renault FT-17 - Manual and parts list
Somua MCG5 - Manual
Panzer III or StuG III - Manual and parts list
8,8 cm Flak 36 - Parts list and electrical diagram
150 cm Scheinwerfer G150K - Manual
Renault FT-17 - Manual and parts list
Somua MCG5 - Manual
Panzer III or StuG III - Manual and parts list
8,8 cm Flak 36 - Parts list and electrical diagram
150 cm Scheinwerfer G150K - Manual
Re: Found: Raketenwasserbombenwerfer RWB 600 U
Yes, I know. My post was intended as a comment to the info on the original sLdgW, as it seems to have been variants of this as well (sorry for the confusing quote)Asbjørn wrote:Thank you Natter, but that seems to be a regular "Schwere Ladungswerfer", a Heer weapon from 1941. The weapon I'm talking about was developed for the Kriegsmarine in 1944 and went in to production in 1945. It fires depth charges, not RTGs, Wurfgranaten or similar.
I figure it might be useful to check for documents/drawings of other variants to aid in the reconstruction of the Rwb 600 (I'm sure you know that there are several articles on the topic in the "Waffen Revue" series).
You should post this on the norwegian forum as well: As you know, there are some members with exeptional talent of identifing such locations...Asbjørn wrote:it seems to be a damaged RWB 600 U, it's missing the basket. Anybody know where the pictures are from?
Re: Found: Raketenwasserbombenwerfer RWB 600 U
A very special weapon
Regards Jos
Regards Jos
Re: Found: Raketenwasserbombenwerfer RWB 600 U
The WK2 Ammo-forum might also be worth checking out/consulting. Those guys knows a lot about ammo, including the german depthcharges:
http://www.wk2ammo.com/showthread.php?6 ... epthcharge
BOCN might also be worth a shot:
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/forum.php
http://www.wk2ammo.com/showthread.php?6 ... epthcharge
BOCN might also be worth a shot:
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/forum.php
Re: Found: Raketenwasserbombenwerfer RWB 600 U
Posted by me in 2008 :A possible third in Bergen, but this has yet to be confirmed.
Is that enough to say that its comfirmed ?All placed at vital places in the harbour. Wasserbombenwerfer 600, Wasserbombenwerfer C/41 (Dreirohrig), 7,3 cm R.Ag.35-fach and 8,6 cm R.Ag. M/42
regards
stril
Re: Found: Raketenwasserbombenwerfer RWB 600 U
No problem, we can never have too much information when restoring! I have most of the "Waffen Revue" series, there are some good articles! I will post the picture on the Norwegian forum, there is a good chance it's from Norway.Natter wrote:Yes, I know. My post was intended as a comment to the info on the original sLdgW, as it seems to have been variants of this as well (sorry for the confusing quote)Asbjørn wrote:Thank you Natter, but that seems to be a regular "Schwere Ladungswerfer", a Heer weapon from 1941. The weapon I'm talking about was developed for the Kriegsmarine in 1944 and went in to production in 1945. It fires depth charges, not RTGs, Wurfgranaten or similar.
I figure it might be useful to check for documents/drawings of other variants to aid in the reconstruction of the Rwb 600 (I'm sure you know that there are several articles on the topic in the "Waffen Revue" series).
You should post this on the norwegian forum as well: As you know, there are some members with exeptional talent of identifing such locations...Asbjørn wrote:it seems to be a damaged RWB 600 U, it's missing the basket. Anybody know where the pictures are from?
Yes it is! That's why we saved this rust pile.jopaerya wrote:A very special weapon
I have used both those foras in the past, a lot of good information there! I did see the thread about the WBR 40 earlier, I think the RWB 600 is very similar, but has more room for rocket fuel due to the increased range (600 m vs. 40 m).Natter wrote:The WK2 Ammo-forum might also be worth checking out/consulting. Those guys knows a lot about ammo, including the german depthcharges:
http://www.wk2ammo.com/showthread.php?6 ... epthcharge
BOCN might also be worth a shot:
http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/forum.php
Your post from 2008 is actually the reason I included Bergen as a possible location. Unfortunately it's not enough to confirm, it could be Wasserbombenwerfer RWB 600, or RWB 600 U. The U-version is the one which is based on the Schwere Ladungswerfer. Do you know exactly where it was located? I found the exact position of where the one in Stavanger had been, they had poured concrete around the base and you can actually see the wave pattern of the base in the concrete! The picture from the police report in my first post shows concrete remains on the base.stril wrote:Posted by me in 2008 :A possible third in Bergen, but this has yet to be confirmed.Is that enough to say that its comfirmed ?All placed at vital places in the harbour. Wasserbombenwerfer 600, Wasserbombenwerfer C/41 (Dreirohrig), 7,3 cm R.Ag.35-fach and 8,6 cm R.Ag. M/42
Looking for the following, original or copy, any language:
Renault FT-17 - Manual and parts list
Somua MCG5 - Manual
Panzer III or StuG III - Manual and parts list
8,8 cm Flak 36 - Parts list and electrical diagram
150 cm Scheinwerfer G150K - Manual
Renault FT-17 - Manual and parts list
Somua MCG5 - Manual
Panzer III or StuG III - Manual and parts list
8,8 cm Flak 36 - Parts list and electrical diagram
150 cm Scheinwerfer G150K - Manual
Re: Found: Raketenwasserbombenwerfer RWB 600 U
okUnfortunately it's not enough to confirm
Yes.Do you know exactly where it was located?
regards
stril
-
- Member
- Posts: 149
- Joined: 12 Feb 2009, 14:43
Re: Found: Raketenwasserbombenwerfer RWB 600 U
Does anyone know about this? Could this be the same mentioned by Campbell, developed by Rheinmetall?Wasserbombenwerfer C/41 (Dreirohrig)
Re: Found: Raketenwasserbombenwerfer RWB 600 U
You are aware of course, of the DAWA Nachrichten 38, with the article covering the 38cm RAg.
Lippmanns list of sources includes some testreports: As the photos from Agdenes indicates both RAg and RWbW being tested alongside, maybe you can find some info on the latter among the same records?
It seems like the danish national archives in Copenhagen would be an interesting place to visit (it's already on my list, due to their assumed vast collection of original german torpedo documents).
By the way: I'm puzzled of the terms being used here (and in Waffen Revue) for the weapon vs the ammunition: WBx = Wasserbombe type x is the official term. Then - in my opinion - "RBW" is more likely to be reffering to "Raketwasserbombe", ie the depthcharge with rocketengine, not the weapon?
Generally, all shortenings for "werfer" have a "W" at the end - like "Wb.W." = Wasserbombenwerfer. A "Raketwasserbombenwerfer" should then be shortened to "R.Wb.W." if you follow the same logic?
Lippmanns list of sources includes some testreports: As the photos from Agdenes indicates both RAg and RWbW being tested alongside, maybe you can find some info on the latter among the same records?
It seems like the danish national archives in Copenhagen would be an interesting place to visit (it's already on my list, due to their assumed vast collection of original german torpedo documents).
By the way: I'm puzzled of the terms being used here (and in Waffen Revue) for the weapon vs the ammunition: WBx = Wasserbombe type x is the official term. Then - in my opinion - "RBW" is more likely to be reffering to "Raketwasserbombe", ie the depthcharge with rocketengine, not the weapon?
Generally, all shortenings for "werfer" have a "W" at the end - like "Wb.W." = Wasserbombenwerfer. A "Raketwasserbombenwerfer" should then be shortened to "R.Wb.W." if you follow the same logic?
Re: Found: Raketenwasserbombenwerfer RWB 600 U
I just received this document from Paidoskixos (thanks!): Table of german armament equipment Part X, Rockets and guidet Projectiles (Rheinmetall, 1948).
The following are listed (RWB xxx = "kurzbezeichnung"):
* RWB 600 = Raketantrieb für Wasserbomben
* RWB F40 = Raketantrieb für Wasserbomben Type F
* RWB G40 = Raketantrieb für Wasserbomben Type G
* RWB H40 = Raketantrieb für Wasserbomben Type H
RWB 600: "Antrieb für normale Wasserbomben zur Vergrösserung der Schussweite gegenüber den normalen Wasserbombenwerfer von 120 auf 600m bei gleichem Rückstoss zur Bekämpfung von U-Booten von Land und kleinen Kriegsschiffen aus" Ie: It seems this weapon used a standard (WBD) depthcharge, with a RWB 600 engine attached?
So, what's the correct designation for the weapon itself?
The following are listed (RWB xxx = "kurzbezeichnung"):
* RWB 600 = Raketantrieb für Wasserbomben
* RWB F40 = Raketantrieb für Wasserbomben Type F
* RWB G40 = Raketantrieb für Wasserbomben Type G
* RWB H40 = Raketantrieb für Wasserbomben Type H
RWB 600: "Antrieb für normale Wasserbomben zur Vergrösserung der Schussweite gegenüber den normalen Wasserbombenwerfer von 120 auf 600m bei gleichem Rückstoss zur Bekämpfung von U-Booten von Land und kleinen Kriegsschiffen aus" Ie: It seems this weapon used a standard (WBD) depthcharge, with a RWB 600 engine attached?
So, what's the correct designation for the weapon itself?
Re: Found: Raketenwasserbombenwerfer RWB 600 U
Sorry for the late reply! No, that one I'm not aware of! I have to find a copy of it, I found a description of it that mentioned "Raketenwerfer RW 300", sounds interesting!Natter wrote:You are aware of course, of the DAWA Nachrichten 38, with the article covering the 38cm RAg.
Lippmanns list of sources includes some testreports: As the photos from Agdenes indicates both RAg and RWbW being tested alongside, maybe you can find some info on the latter among the same records?
It seems like the danish national archives in Copenhagen would be an interesting place to visit (it's already on my list, due to their assumed vast collection of original german torpedo documents).
I'll try to get hold of the test reports from Agdenes, I'll also contact Rheinmetall. Thanks for the tip about the Danish national archive, I'll put that on my list of archives to visit!
I also have some trouble with the name of the weapon and ammo, it doesn't seem to follow the regular naming convention.Natter wrote:By the way: I'm puzzled of the terms being used here (and in Waffen Revue) for the weapon vs the ammunition: WBx = Wasserbombe type x is the official term. Then - in my opinion - "RBW" is more likely to be reffering to "Raketwasserbombe", ie the depthcharge with rocketengine, not the weapon?
Generally, all shortenings for "werfer" have a "W" at the end - like "Wb.W." = Wasserbombenwerfer. A "Raketwasserbombenwerfer" should then be shortened to "R.Wb.W." if you follow the same logic?
If the article in Waffen Revue is correct, the weapon is called "Wasserbombenwerfer RWB 600 U". and the ammunition "RWB 600". If we assume "RWB" means "Raketenwasserbombe", it makes some sense, It's a Wasserbombenwerfer for Raketenwasserbombe 600. The "U" probably stands for Umbau, it is after all a modified Schwere Ladungswerfer.
Looking for the following, original or copy, any language:
Renault FT-17 - Manual and parts list
Somua MCG5 - Manual
Panzer III or StuG III - Manual and parts list
8,8 cm Flak 36 - Parts list and electrical diagram
150 cm Scheinwerfer G150K - Manual
Renault FT-17 - Manual and parts list
Somua MCG5 - Manual
Panzer III or StuG III - Manual and parts list
8,8 cm Flak 36 - Parts list and electrical diagram
150 cm Scheinwerfer G150K - Manual
Re: Found: Raketenwasserbombenwerfer RWB 600 U
Interesting, I guessed it was just a regular Wasserbombe with a rocket engine attached, but I didn't know the exact type of Wasserbombe. What leads you to believe they used WBDs and not any of the other types? They are very similar.Natter wrote:I just received this document from Paidoskixos (thanks!): Table of german armament equipment Part X, Rockets and guidet Projectiles (Rheinmetall, 1948).
The following are listed (RWB xxx = "kurzbezeichnung"):
* RWB 600 = Raketantrieb für Wasserbomben
* RWB F40 = Raketantrieb für Wasserbomben Type F
* RWB G40 = Raketantrieb für Wasserbomben Type G
* RWB H40 = Raketantrieb für Wasserbomben Type H
RWB 600: "Antrieb für normale Wasserbomben zur Vergrösserung der Schussweite gegenüber den normalen Wasserbombenwerfer von 120 auf 600m bei gleichem Rückstoss zur Bekämpfung von U-Booten von Land und kleinen Kriegsschiffen aus" Ie: It seems this weapon used a standard (WBD) depthcharge, with a RWB 600 engine attached?
So, what's the correct designation for the weapon itself?
Looking for the following, original or copy, any language:
Renault FT-17 - Manual and parts list
Somua MCG5 - Manual
Panzer III or StuG III - Manual and parts list
8,8 cm Flak 36 - Parts list and electrical diagram
150 cm Scheinwerfer G150K - Manual
Renault FT-17 - Manual and parts list
Somua MCG5 - Manual
Panzer III or StuG III - Manual and parts list
8,8 cm Flak 36 - Parts list and electrical diagram
150 cm Scheinwerfer G150K - Manual