Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

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Swede71
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Post by Swede71 » 08 Dec 2017 11:21

Over the last ten years I have been to Oswiecim approximately 20 times, and one time I actually walk up the driveway to Palitzsch house just to be sure.
In Oswiecim, as well as in the whole of Poland, its very markedly how much they remodel old house and build new once. One thing that struck me is. When the Poles took back their house from pre war, or when they remodel them, didn't they find anything? Notes or photos for example. Or did they just throw everything away? I think there are many more "Hoecker- and Lili Jacobalbums" out there.

history1
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Post by history1 » 08 Dec 2017 18:57

Thanks, Geoff, much appreciated! IMHO those are bricks and not roofing shingles on the Palitzsch house. I can´t remember that I´ve seen houses with shingles in that area, but that may have changed after WWII. But the general area is not known for such roofings.
Do you know a German title for Citroen´s book maybe? I wouldn´t mind to find an English or Polish version either if sich exist. Horrible that a book only a couple years ago published isn´t to find anywhere.
Best regards!

Roman

history1
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Post by history1 » 08 Dec 2017 19:30

You need to remember that there was no hasty or mindless retreat when the Germans and their collaborateurs did leave Auschwitz, Swede71. Nor was there any battle or fights with surprised German troops. I assume that photos and notes are the easiest things to take with you, and also the most easy to destroy. A single match is enough to spoil this goods.
And you need to remind yourself that the liquidation of the camp started already in November 1944, AFAIK.
I guess when Poles did find something they re-used it when possible. Some finds may have been sold on flee markets, antique trades ( I can remember that I saw an original Manual for Guards in Gdansk in 1990), internet stores, etc.. And many things got handed over to Museums and Memorials even when the legal owner is known, eg. this silver trophy which Max Pauly, a commander of KL Stutthof, got from his staff when leaving the camp in 1942. Found in in his villa in Gdynia Orłowo and handed over to the Museums archive in 1970 by Andrzej Kisiel. So to speak loot, which is the museum presenting nowadays.

http://stutthof.org/node/796
http://stutthof.org/projekty/om/102015/puchard.jpg

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Geoff Walden
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Post by Geoff Walden » 09 Dec 2017 16:18

history1 wrote:Do you know a German title for Citroen´s book maybe? I wouldn´t mind to find an English or Polish version either if sich exist. Horrible that a book only a couple years ago published isn´t to find anywhere.
Best regards!
Roman
Hi Roman,
I have only seen English editions for sale. Amazon.com has some, but rather expensive. I know there was an original Dutch edition and a German edition (ISBN 9789460830549), but I never saw them. I think all were titled the same - Auschwitz-Oświęcim, Oświęcim-Auschwitz.
Best, Geoff
"Ordnung ist das halbe Leben" - I live in the other half.
http://www.thirdreichruins.com

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*NL*
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Post by *NL* » 09 Dec 2017 21:32

Correct Geoff, the title of the book is the same in Dutch as well ( ISBN 9789460830402 )

Roman, i would advice you to write the author of the book yourself about one of the versions you would like.
Like Geoff already wrote, i also find it a wonderfull book.

I will send Hans Citroen's e-mail adress to your PM box.

Best regards..

Swede71
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Post by Swede71 » 10 Dec 2017 16:49

Most likely the kiesgrube (this one know as the "palitzschgrube") located just on the opposide side of the street from wich he was living. The house beeing built in the background must be the appartment complex for workers.
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wm
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Post by wm » 11 Dec 2017 17:36

Swede71 wrote: When the Poles took back their house from pre war, or when they remodel them, didn't they find anything? Notes or photos for example. Or did they just throw everything away? I think there are many more "Hoecker- and Lili Jacobalbums" out there.
At that time people didn't collect such artifacts (actually any artifacts except stamps maybe). They were uncollectable and unsellable so usually ended up in fire. Especially in Auschwitz photos of Nazis had no chance. What survives today was usually found much later - well hidden in the attic for example.

Sampo Jämbeck
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Post by Sampo Jämbeck » 30 Dec 2017 03:15

I wonder where was the location of SS Truppenlazarett?
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/?u ... all_fields
Is that the same SS military hospital with dedication ceremony pictures including Richard Baer among others?
All I find is this:
"the outskirts of Birkenau, where the SS military hospital was located"
https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.ph ... d=10007435

Is there any of these buildings left today?

GregSingh
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Post by GregSingh » 30 Dec 2017 06:22

Area you're asking was just E of SS barracks (in the green circle).
It's all private land now, so detailed inspection is not possible.

All what's left from both is a former SS HQ (building in red), now a church, I think.
Map is upside down, but I wanted N to be on top, as it should be with maps!
Birkenau map.jpg
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If we become increasingly humble about how little we know, we may be more eager to search.

Sampo Jämbeck
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Post by Sampo Jämbeck » 30 Dec 2017 17:14

Thank you GregSingh. I was thinking about that area myself but I wasn't sure.
Judging by Google Earth, there is not much to see anymore.

But the way, thanks everyone for all this great information in this thread.

history1
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Post by history1 » 02 Jan 2018 17:06

Correct, Greg, the former SS HQ is a church now. I posted it already once in a thread on AHF: https://tinyurl.com/y8r9jvy8
Sampo, no need to wonder, the Poles did take everything apart from the remaining buildings in - and outside the fence. It´s no secret that they used everything what they needed. They also did overbuild camp ground with civil houses and roads, eg. the northern part of Auschwitz II B[-auabschnitt] III, called Mexico. Not specified on the above french map posted by Greg.

Swede71
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Post by Swede71 » 04 Jan 2018 10:41

I once took a modern map and placed it over an aerial picture from 1945 just to get the exact location of lazarett buildings. Must be in my computer somewhere. Will look for it.

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Makarov
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Post by Makarov » 04 Jan 2018 14:11

My guess is that something, not much, still can be found of what used to be the former SS Truppenlazarett, Perhaps some small piece of barack/floor fundament well hidden in the grass, under some pile or shed. It is said that nothing remains of the Monowitz camp and we no that isn't true so there is probably something there. Unfortunality everything seems to be on private ground and I can understand if the owners don´t want people like us lurking around looking for something that might be there.

Anyone knows what the construction in the black circle is?
Birkenau map.jpg
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Swede71
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Post by Swede71 » 04 Jan 2018 15:34

I´m pretty sure that the black circle is a SS dog kennel. Correct me if i´m wrong.

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Fenix
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Re: Auschwitz Buildings, “outside the wire”

Post by Fenix » 04 Jan 2018 19:21

It will be helpfull I think so.....

Image

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