SiPo Stahlrute

Discussions on other First and Second World War militaria and collecting in general. Hosted by John G & William Kramer.
User avatar
timkoningskelp
Member
Posts: 87
Joined: 28 Jan 2009 01:39

SiPo Stahlrute

Post by timkoningskelp » 07 Jan 2015 07:14

Recently a collegue showed me two photographs of what he called a 'stick' and asked me if I knew what it was. It's in possession of his father, who told him he captured it from a German during the war (his father was in the Dutch resistance).

I asked him to send the photographs to me, so I could post it on this forum and ask people more knowledgable then myself.

Image

Image

After some searching on the internet I now know it's an Stahlrute or steel stick (baton) used by the Sicherheitspolizei during the war. It should have some more lettering on the bottom, but unfortunatly the pictures he send me are not clear enough te make this out. The Stahlrute is in working order (e.g. it can be retracted) and has some minor moist damage. Furthermore its missing its leather band. Since my collegue's father didn't even know what it was and has no intention to make any money of it, I have no doubt about it's originality.

My questions are specifically related to it's value, if any. Someone on the internet offered me less then $ 350,-, but I have seen this exact item on some other sites for prices between $ 1000,- and $ 1150,-. Could you please let me know what you think about it's condition and it's worth?
Thanks on forehand.

Best regards,
Tim

User avatar
John G.
Host - Militaria sections
Posts: 5700
Joined: 25 Apr 2006 18:56
Location: USA

Re: SiPo Stahlrute

Post by John G. » 07 Jan 2015 11:06

I personally have "MAJOR" reservations as to the originality of this "Stahlrute"..... the end cap markings are crudely executed and reek of typical reproduction quality .... I'd want to see both documentation and photographic evidence of it's use durning the period.... not some unbacked internet sources.... before believing it.

Wouldn't be anything I'd pay big money for..... without it's "leather".... even if I believed it is real....(which is "open to discussion"... too say the least IMHO.)

Just my opinion.... nothing personal.
John G.

JoeW
Member
Posts: 1291
Joined: 04 Jan 2004 05:14
Location: Midwest, USA

Re: SiPo Stahlrute

Post by JoeW » 07 Jan 2015 16:15

It's a legitimate piece. SIPO was the trademark. Trouble is they made them wartime and post WWII. Here is an excellent discussion of them from knowledgeable collectors.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... light=sipo

User avatar
timkoningskelp
Member
Posts: 87
Joined: 28 Jan 2009 01:39

Re: SiPo Stahlrute

Post by timkoningskelp » 08 Jan 2015 07:12

Thank you for your reactions.

John, I had the same doubts you have, before searching the internet and finding quite a lot of information about this Stahlrute.

JoeW, thanks you for the link. Unfortunatly the topic contains a link to one being sold on WAF, but that links is no longer working (the thread is from 2009).

Hence my question: what would it be worth.

I found the following item on e-militaria.com:

Image
And
Image

And these items on Sneyder:

Image

Sneyder is asking $999.99 and e-militaria $1150.-. Someone from Germaniamilitaria.com offered me less then $350,- (he said that was the price he sold a Stahlrute for himself). I know Sneyder doesn't have the best reputation, but in this case he seems reasonable with his price.
Can you give me an indication of a resonable value for this peace. As said my collegue's father isn't looking to sell it, but it would be nice if he knew what it would be worth.
Thank you.

JoeW
Member
Posts: 1291
Joined: 04 Jan 2004 05:14
Location: Midwest, USA

Re: SiPo Stahlrute

Post by JoeW » 08 Jan 2015 07:25

I think Snyder's prices are way out of line,especially given the reputation. Dating the item is the problem. Your friend says his father got it from some German in wartime Holland. Hearsay unfortunately. I would value it at $500-$700 based on condition.

User avatar
timkoningskelp
Member
Posts: 87
Joined: 28 Jan 2009 01:39

Re: SiPo Stahlrute

Post by timkoningskelp » 08 Jan 2015 07:40

Thank you very much for your quick reply. I think my collegue will be very interested to hear this item is so valuable. During his youth he always called it simply a 'stick' and they came very close to throwing it away multiple times...
This forum is a real gem!!

Best regards,
Tim

Jesse E.
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: 25 Mar 2017 18:02
Location: Netherlands

Re: SiPo Stahlrute

Post by Jesse E. » 25 Mar 2017 19:13

I would like to bump this topic because i found a similar item in the house of a friend of my aunt

is there some one here who can help me authenticate this item??

Image

Image

Image

Image

kind regards,

Jesse.

Sejanus
Member
Posts: 187
Joined: 12 Mar 2016 10:55
Location: The Continent

Re: SiPo Stahlrute

Post by Sejanus » 27 Mar 2017 14:00

These stahlruten (steel rods) could be purchased brand new during the 1980's (and perhaps later). They were advertised (in the US) in magazines such as Soldier of Fortune, Gung Ho, Black Belt, etc. For example:

https://books.google.com/books?id=HNsDA ... po&f=false

I have seen no proof that these were produced during the Third Reich period. If anyone reading this does, please share the information here. Absent any proof, these are post war items with wildly exaggerated values when it comes to the likes of unscrupulous dealers like the Charles Snyder (and his ilk) mentioned earlier in this thread.

Also, note the spelling difference. SiPo was the Third Reich Sicherheitspolizei, while SIPO (all caps) is the model name for this stahlrute. Just because it says SIPO on it, does not mean that the SiPo ever used them.

Jesse E.
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: 25 Mar 2017 18:02
Location: Netherlands

Re: SiPo Stahlrute

Post by Jesse E. » 27 Mar 2017 17:19

Thanks for your reply...

It says SiPo and not all capitals and under further inspection you can see faint letters of the DRGM above SiPo and DRP below...
And after a little google hocus pocus the DRGM and DRP marks were never used again post WWII... (correct me if i'm wrong)

Sejanus
Member
Posts: 187
Joined: 12 Mar 2016 10:55
Location: The Continent

Re: SiPo Stahlrute

Post by Sejanus » 28 Mar 2017 07:29

Jesse E. wrote:Thanks for your reply...

It says SiPo and not all capitals and under further inspection you can see faint letters of the DRGM above SiPo and DRP below...
And after a little google hocus pocus the DRGM and DRP marks were never used again post WWII... (correct me if i'm wrong)
It looks like it reads "SIPO" in all caps in the photo you posted. Perhaps it looks different in person to you? In any event, the other markings (DRGM & DRP) do not necessarily prove that the item was manufactured before the end of the war, as there are plenty of post war faked items that such markings have also been added to. So without some sort of independent, verifiable evidence that these existed prior to the end of the war, there is no way to prove that what you have was produced during the Third Reich no matter how it is marked.

Hope this helps. And:

:welcome:

Return to “Other WW1 & WW2 Militaria”