U-boat deck gun help required ? deck gun sight?

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butterfly
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U-boat deck gun help required ? deck gun sight?

Post by butterfly » 05 Aug 2015 16:00

I'm new to the forum and am looking for assistance, can anyone help.

I would like to know a little more about the sight I have. I have found images of this mounted on the deck gun of Uboats which I believe to be the 8.8cm SK C/35 gun on the Ubts LC/35 mount. (I believe that these guns were removed from the decks of Uboats after 1942, and subsequently mounted onto Minesweepers, is this information correct?)
Now I also believe this sight may have been used with the 10.5cm gun SK C/32 but am having difficulty distinguishing the two and would like confirmation if this is correct or if it was an entirely different sight.

All information so far is pretty much speculation on my part and I would ultimately like confirmation from others more qualified in this area. The sight is marked DZ C/1

all help appreciated

Kev[img]
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jopaerya
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Re: U-boat deck gun help required ? deck gun sight?

Post by jopaerya » 06 Aug 2015 09:08

:welcome: Butterfly

Sorry, I can't help you, but nice picture's of this gun sight.

Regards Jos

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vladalex
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Re: U-boat deck gun help required ? deck gun sight?

Post by vladalex » 06 Aug 2015 10:47

butterfly wrote:I'm new to the forum and am looking for assistance, can anyone help.

I would like to know a little more about the sight I have. I have found images of this mounted on the deck gun of Uboats which I believe to be the 8.8cm SK C/35 gun on the Ubts LC/35 mount. (I believe that these guns were removed from the decks of Uboats after 1942, and subsequently mounted onto Minesweepers, is this information correct?)Opinion : No. On the mine sweepers was mounted only 10,5 cm UTOF C/16 or 10,5 cm SKC/32U - see the attached picture for example
Now I also believe this sight may have been used with the 10.5cm gun SK C/32U - For the other types of 10,5 cm familly was used the Carl Zeiss mono-ocular sights of type Z.Schr.E.C/6 and Z.Schr.E.7 (left and right side), or binocular sight of type B.Z.Schr.E.C/1 but am having difficulty distinguishing the two and would like confirmation if this is correct or if it was an entirely different sight.

All information so far is pretty much speculation on my part and I would ultimately like confirmation from others more qualified in this area. The sight is marked DZ C/1
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jopaerya
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Re: U-boat deck gun help required ? deck gun sight?

Post by jopaerya » 06 Aug 2015 12:23

Here a picture of a 10.5 cm S.K.C/32U in Brest with your type of sight .

Photo = Alain Chazette

Regards Jos
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butterfly
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Re: U-boat deck gun help required ? deck gun sight?

Post by butterfly » 06 Aug 2015 13:13

Thank you for the response so far regarding this, the photo posted in the thread is an interesting one as it shows the 10,5 cm gun to which I refer mounted upon a Minesweeper. It is clearly mounted in the Ubts L/32 mount - the mounting bracket for the sights on this mount appear identical to that of the 8,8 cm Ubts L C/35 mount from what I can make out, so does this mean the sight I have would have been used with both guns using these Ubts mountings? (see photo below)

There is also still the question as to wether the guns mounted to the Minesweepers took place after removal from the U-boats sometime after 1942 - or were the Ubts 8,8cm L C/35 and the Ubts 10,5cm L/32 mount standard issue equipment to the Minesweeper fleet?

many thanks for your continuous help regarding this, I hope you find the thread interesting

kind regards Kev
SKC32U with DZ C-1.png
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butterfly
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Re: U-boat deck gun help required ? deck gun sight?

Post by butterfly » 06 Aug 2015 13:21

jopaerya wrote:Here a picture of a 10.5 cm S.K.C/32U in Brest with your type of sight .

Photo = Alain Chazette

Regards Jos
Thanks Jos, yes this certainly looks like other images I have seen showing what I believe to be the D.Z.C/1 sight used with the 10.5cm gun, again it shows the Ubts mount. Again would I be correct in assuming that this would have been after the guns became surplus to the U-boats? (IE; surplus guns and mounts being reused elsewhere?)

appreciated Kev

butterfly
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Re: U-boat deck gun help required ? deck gun sight?

Post by butterfly » 06 Aug 2015 13:32

I ought to add that the headpads on the sight I have are exactly 'as found'. These are an external fitting that clamp onto the eyepiece; lots of period photos that I am finding whilst trawling the net show the full 'rubber' eyeshields/ sunshields around the optics. I cannot answer any questions as to why the headrests in my example replaced the full eyeshields, its simply as it came to me. I'm afraid I know little about this subject to offer much in the way of explanation at this stage.

Kev

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Re: U-boat deck gun help required ? deck gun sight?

Post by jopaerya » 06 Aug 2015 15:30


jopaerya
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Re: U-boat deck gun help required ? deck gun sight?

Post by jopaerya » 06 Aug 2015 15:49

Many 10.5 cm S.K.C/32U were used in the Atlantikwall , they were used to update naval coast batterie's,
older guns and guns with a low ammunitions stockpile ( 9.4 cm guns ) were replaced by these modern guns.

Regards Jos

butterfly
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Re: U-boat deck gun help required ? deck gun sight?

Post by butterfly » 06 Aug 2015 17:46

Hello Jos,

many thanks for the link you gave to the above thread, lots of period photos in that one showing the 10.5cm with the C/32U mount and with good shots of the sight I have in situ. So I think this is now clear that the sight was used with both the 8.8cm SK C/35 and the 10.5cm SK C/32 guns when on the 'U' mountings. The link also provides some excellent period photos showing the guns mounted on shore, these would appear, by suggestion of locations, to be around places where the U-boats were based. Does this suggest also that the 'shore mounted guns' were guns that had originally been mounted on the decks of the U-boats and subsequently used as such?

Were the C/32u mounts designed to be used on the Minesweepers as well as U-boats or were these mounts simply added from the ones removed from the U-boats after 1942/43 ?

Kev

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vladalex
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Re: U-boat deck gun help required ? deck gun sight?

Post by vladalex » 07 Aug 2015 08:19

butterfly wrote:
jopaerya wrote:.. . So I think this is now clear that the sight was used with both the 8.8cm SK C/35 and the 10.5cm SK C/32 guns when on the 'U' mountings.... Is a little confussion; The gun 10,5 cm SKC/32U is special designed for submarine, nothing in common with 10,5cm SKC/32 other type of guns. (photo) "U" mounting were of two types LC/32 and LC/36, and is not identicals. For 8,8 cm U-boot gun was used LC/35...
... Does this suggest also that the 'shore mounted guns' were guns that had originally been mounted on the decks of the U-boats and subsequently used as such? For me, no any suggestions about this ...

Were the C/32u mounts designed to be used on the Minesweepers as well as U-boats or were these mounts simply added from the ones removed from the U-boats after 1942/43 ? No. Were specialy designed for submarine, and if for submarines is good, is good for any types of ships. There were not dismounted from submarine, gun factory builded more guns than submarines , that's all. A number of 8,8 cm U-boot guns was mounted with shield on Artilerie Fahrprahmen (photo) , but NO on miesweepers (of type 35, 40,43)

Kev
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vladalex
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Re: U-boat deck gun help required ? deck gun sight?

Post by vladalex » 07 Aug 2015 08:44

Correction for photo-text :
#1. Special monobloc barrel for 10,5cm SKC/32U
#2. 8,8cm SKC/32 in 8,8cm MPLC/35 with Shield-Box protection mounted on Artilerie Fahrprahmen type D (?)
#3. LC/32 U-boot mount for 10,5cm SKC/32U - 35 degree elevation, and LC/36 U-boot mount for 10,5cm SKC/32U - 30 degree elevation
#4. The Box-Shield Protection for 8,8cm SKC/32 in 8,8cm MPLC/35
#5. 8,8cm SKC/32 in 8,8cm MPLC/35 mounted on Artilerie Fahrprahmen type (unknown) without protection shields

Source: AHF , different threads.

Regards,
Vladalex

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vladalex
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Re: U-boat deck gun help required ? deck gun sight?

Post by vladalex » 07 Aug 2015 09:28

Another 5 pictures with 8,8 cm and 10,5 cm only FYI
Evolution is for a vision about 105 cm history ...

Regards,
Vladalex
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Jan7
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Re: U-boat deck gun help required ? deck gun sight?

Post by Jan7 » 07 Aug 2015 12:09

Hi to all!

Do you take a look at this book:
Militärische Ferngläser und Fernrohre – in Heer, Luftwaffe und Marine by Dr. Hans Seeger ?

I think that is a very valuable reference.




Jan.
La llave de la libertad es la sabiduria. El cerrojo de la esclavitud la ignorancia

http://www.u-historia.com/ History of UBootwaffe in Spanish
http://www.forospyware.com/ In Spanish

butterfly
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Re: U-boat deck gun help required ? deck gun sight?

Post by butterfly » 07 Aug 2015 14:12

vladalex wrote:
butterfly wrote:
jopaerya wrote:.. . So I think this is now clear that the sight was used with both the 8.8cm SK C/35 and the 10.5cm SK C/32 guns when on the 'U' mountings.... Is a little confussion; The gun 10,5 cm SKC/32U is special designed for submarine, nothing in common with 10,5cm SKC/32 other type of guns. (photo) "U" mounting were of two types LC/32 and LC/36, and is not identicals. For 8,8 cm U-boot gun was used LC/35...
... Does this suggest also that the 'shore mounted guns' were guns that had originally been mounted on the decks of the U-boats and subsequently used as such? For me, no any suggestions about this ...

Were the C/32u mounts designed to be used on the Minesweepers as well as U-boats or were these mounts simply added from the ones removed from the U-boats after 1942/43 ? No. Were specialy designed for submarine, and if for submarines is good, is good for any types of ships. There were not dismounted from submarine, gun factory builded more guns than submarines , that's all. A number of 8,8 cm U-boot guns was mounted with shield on Artilerie Fahrprahmen (photo) , but NO on miesweepers (of type 35, 40,43)

Kev
[/quote

Many thanks for your in depth replies vladalex, I think slowly the 'penny is beginning to drop' and I am understanding this better. I am sorry as I ought to have paid more attention to your earlier reply which for some reason passed me by - the bright red writing ought to have caught my attention, maybe it was late anyhow accept my apologies in this regard. (pm sent)
you are clearly very well informed on this subject.

Now for the benefit of the forum the optics are clearly marked D.Z. C/1 - the D.Z. abbreviation for Druckdichtes Zielfernrohr, this translates to 'pressure tight optic' - this is not a standard mark on German optics as I can see, so does this indicate that it was not only waterproof but able to withstand submersing in water?, this would make sense for optics used on U-boats of course. Although I have read that it was standard practice to remove the optical gun sights as they were prone to damage from depth charge attack, in an emergency they could remain in place.

I will try to post more photos of the sight later for those who are interested to see.

kind regards Kev

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