Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

Discussions on WW2 in Eastern Europe.
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TheMarcksPlan
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Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

Post by TheMarcksPlan » 13 May 2022 16:31

Thanks
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Huszar666
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Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

Post by Huszar666 » 22 May 2022 18:26

Actually, the weather pre-Barbarossa is equal to that of September 1940 in the English Chanel.
For both, it is said, it was bad and did not favour operations. But strangly, there are no definite data for either.

I start to susspect that Generals Schlamm and Schnee, Admiral Seegang and Luftmarschall Wolken, who conspired to make the Führer's wishes impossible, being just scapegoats, since the wonderously impacted only the German side.

historygeek2021
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Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

Post by historygeek2021 » 18 Jul 2022 16:24

Max Payload wrote:
23 Jan 2021 00:57

Transport Echelon III. peacetime railroad schedule, 8 April -20 May: 17 Divs., GHq. troops from ZI and West.
Transport Echelon IV B, maximum railroad schedule, 3 June -23 June: 12 Armd. Divs. and 12 mot Divs from ZI, West and Southeast.
What does "ZI" stand for?

Richard Anderson
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Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

Post by Richard Anderson » 18 Jul 2022 17:01

historygeek2021 wrote:
18 Jul 2022 16:24
Max Payload wrote:
23 Jan 2021 00:57

Transport Echelon III. peacetime railroad schedule, 8 April -20 May: 17 Divs., GHq. troops from ZI and West.
Transport Echelon IV B, maximum railroad schedule, 3 June -23 June: 12 Armd. Divs. and 12 mot Divs from ZI, West and Southeast.
What does "ZI" stand for?
Zone of the Interior. World War II U.S. Army speak for CONUS.
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

historygeek2021
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Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

Post by historygeek2021 » 18 Jul 2022 17:58

Richard Anderson wrote:
18 Jul 2022 17:01

Zone of the Interior. World War II U.S. Army speak for CONUS.
Thanks.

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Aida1
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Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

Post by Aida1 » 31 Jul 2022 09:40

Huszar666 wrote:
22 May 2022 18:26
Actually, the weather pre-Barbarossa is equal to that of September 1940 in the English Chanel.
For both, it is said, it was bad and did not favour operations. But strangly, there are no definite data for either.

I start to susspect that Generals Schlamm and Schnee, Admiral Seegang and Luftmarschall Wolken, who conspired to make the Führer's wishes impossible, being just scapegoats, since the wonderously impacted only the German side.
Weather does impact military operations and it can make an operation much more difficult or impossible. If bad weather for example makes flying impossible then the side that has air superiority is negatively impacted by this and the other side profits. If mud makes fast advances impossible after a breakthrough then the defender profits. Very simplistic therefore to call weather a scapegoat.

TheSearcher1941
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Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

Post by TheSearcher1941 » 28 Aug 2022 21:41

I am starting (again) to see if I can dig up anything on a relative from Barbarosa, Aug 1941, Borowiki, Belarus. I have some info, but not good with figuring his unit. Does anyone have info on units in the area of Borowiki, Beresina/Dnejpr rivers, beginning Aug, 1941? Can anyone point me?

ljadw
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Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

Post by ljadw » 29 Aug 2022 10:15

Huszar666 wrote:
22 May 2022 18:26
Actually, the weather pre-Barbarossa is equal to that of September 1940 in the English Chanel.
For both, it is said, it was bad and did not favour operations. But strangly, there are no definite data for either.

I start to susspect that Generals Schlamm and Schnee, Admiral Seegang and Luftmarschall Wolken, who conspired to make the Führer's wishes impossible, being just scapegoats, since the wonderously impacted only the German side.
Of course, they are scapegoats, otherwise the WM fans should explain why the WM failed to defeat the Soviets in the Summer of 1941,when weather was better .
And, if is the same for Sealion : Sealion would also have failed in the weather was better in September .
To blame the weather is to hide the fact that there were two parties in all operations .
The Soviet Winter offensive (which started after the failure of Typhoon ) also failed, but not because of the Winter .

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Aida1
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Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

Post by Aida1 » 01 Sep 2022 11:34

ljadw wrote:
29 Aug 2022 10:15
Huszar666 wrote:
22 May 2022 18:26
Actually, the weather pre-Barbarossa is equal to that of September 1940 in the English Chanel.
For both, it is said, it was bad and did not favour operations. But strangly, there are no definite data for either.

I start to susspect that Generals Schlamm and Schnee, Admiral Seegang and Luftmarschall Wolken, who conspired to make the Führer's wishes impossible, being just scapegoats, since the wonderously impacted only the German side.
Of course, they are scapegoats, otherwise the WM fans should explain why the WM failed to defeat the Soviets in the Summer of 1941,when weather was better .
And, if is the same for Sealion : Sealion would also have failed in the weather was better in September .
To blame the weather is to hide the fact that there were two parties in all operations .
The Soviet Winter offensive (which started after the failure of Typhoon ) also failed, but not because of the Winter .
As usual in denial of the effect of weather on military operations. Simply ignoring weather conditions when intending a military operation would be very dumb.

ljadw
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Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

Post by ljadw » 01 Sep 2022 14:24

What was the effect of the Summer of 1941 on the fighting ?The result was a German failure .Thus,the delay of Barbarossa had no effect on the outcome of the war in the East .

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Aida1
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Re: Barbarossa, Delay: Balkans or Rain

Post by Aida1 » 01 Sep 2022 17:31

ljadw wrote:
01 Sep 2022 14:24
What was the effect of the Summer of 1941 on the fighting ?The result was a German failure .Thus,the delay of Barbarossa had no effect on the outcome of the war in the East .
Not what I said. The late start of Typhoon certainly had a negative impact on operations.

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