Russian Army and Red Army Horse drawn wagons and carts

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Re: Russian Army and Red Army Horse drawn wagons and carts

Post by 28juni14 » 24 Dec 2015 17:32

Frohe Weihnachten an alle !!

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Re: Russian Army and Red Army Horse drawn wagons and carts

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 12 Jan 2016 10:28

Looking at Arts list of horse drawn vehicles, here is an attempt to show what each type is like and its basic characteristics. There were defined in the 1950 and 60s under the GOST scheme of standards throughout the USSR but many of these are unavailable on the internet. Horse drawn vehicles are defined by their purpose/load and the number of horses.
одноконный (оглобельный) single horse or single shaft
пароконный (дышловой) pair of horses
троечный (русская тройка) three horses or Troika
четвёрочн ый(тачанки) four horses or four in hand

Carts and Gigs are two wheeled
Wagons and drays are four wheeled

There are various types of harness (the leatherwork that connects the horses to the wagon.) This is referred to in Russian as запряжек and is a complex subject but there are two groups, one which uses a 'collar' around the horses neck to connect the horse to the traces or the other type uses a breast strap usually held in place by a lightweight strap. For heavy work collars are essential but cumbersome.

Capacity or load carrying:
one horse wagons 0.75 tonne
two horse wagon 1.5 tonne
one horse cart 0.5 tonne (principally because in a two wheeled vehicle some of the weight rests on the back of the horse via the shafts.
two horse cart 0.75 tonne
one or two horse gig 0.5 tonne (carries two or four passengers)
modern steel wagons with rubber tyres on roads 2.0-2.5 tonnes
Sleighs (passengers) 400 kg
Sleds (cargo) 1000 kg

Weight of vehicle was set at 1/4 the load weight for light duty or 1/3 for heavy duty. 1/2 the load weight was deemed unacceptable (the hf.7 Stahlwagon "Horse killer" wagon in the German Army met this standard)
Sleds and sleighs 160-180kg for cargo types and 140-160kg for passenger types

Other than that there were regional variations and names but in reality these broad parameters were adhered to and this was the same as in Great Britain. So an Irish Side or "Outside" Car looked different from an English Trap or Governesses Cart but is reality they were both 4 people single horse cart frames with different bodies
Линейки - Lineyki - "Ruler"
This looks to be a type of side car (where the four passengers sit two sideways and each pair back to back. The reason for including it is that it appears to be the basis for the Civil War era Machine Gun Wagons.

Image

Повозки конные - Povozki konnyye - "Horse wagon"
- Повозка одноконная "One horse wagon" GOST 110-53
- Повозка пароконная "Two horse wagon" GOST 706-50
Standard wagons for general cargo

Image

Двуколка - Dvukolka - Gig - One horse two passengers GOST 1142-51
Lught weight cart with two seats one for the driver and a passenger.

Image

Полок- Polok - Cart
This is a flat bed version of the one horse wagon which allows it to carry large loads. Often seen with panels attached to the sides to carry hay or straw from the fields. Capacity is up to 750 kg
Image

Тарантас - Tarantas - Open Carriages such as broughom, berlin, etc
Driver and two passengers or larger ones had two drivers
Image

Ходá - Hoda - Timber wagon
Front limber with shafts and a rear trailer. The two parts are connected by the load, usually lengths of timber.

Load capacity of 1500 kg, the weight of 270-290 kg;
Image

Sleds and Sleighs

Various types of sled characteristics
Image

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Der Alte Fritz
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Re: Russian Army and Red Army Horse drawn wagons and carts

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 24 Jan 2016 11:10

Taking the figures from this thread: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 4#p1383134
"The combat and numerical composition of the Soviet Armed Forces in the period of GPW"

We can compare the change in numbers of vehicles. (inc trucks) and horses over the period of the war.
For this exercise, I have concentrated on just the Field Army.
2016-01-24 (1).png
2016-01-24 (2).png
2016-01-24 (5).png
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Re: Russian Army and Red Army Horse drawn wagons and carts

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 24 Jan 2016 11:40

The picture that emerges is completely different to the usual one.

The Red Army in December 1941 has 4 million men and good proportion of horses (7 men per horse) and trucks (26 men per truck) but surprisingly does not recover this good ratio until Jan 1945.

1942 sees a large expansion in the army to 6.6 million men but only 175,000 extra horses and 40,000 trucks so overall the ratio worsens to 8 men per horse and 34 men per truck.

Similarly the heavy fighting of the winter and summer of 1943 leaves the field army shorter than ever of transport at 11 men per horse and 34 men per truck.

1944 sees extra horses and trucks arriving at the front but it is only by 1945 that the number of horses regains its 1942 high point with a ratio of 9 men per horse still worse than December 1941 while the truck situation does improve gaining 116,000 on 1941. That means that the army grew from 4 million to 6.7 million (166% increase) while the number of trucks increased from 152,000 to 268,000 (175%) while the horses grew from 608,000 to 791,000 (131%).

Transport wise, the Red Army was pretty good in December 1941 a situation which it would not equal until 1945.

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Re: Russian Army and Red Army Horse drawn wagons and carts

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 24 Jan 2016 11:57

2016-01-24 (3).png
as this graph shows the truck ratio after 1941 struggles to fall below the 30 line and similarly the horses struggle to fall below the 10 line and even by the wars end have not recovered their 1941 ratio.

Looking at the overall figures for the Soviet Armed Forces which includes the material in the Military Districts plus the STAVKA Reserve it shows a different picture. The number of Personnel shows as before a large rise after Dec 1941 and then relative stability and the motor vehicles and Trucks show a steady rise, gradually closing the gap that opened up so that by the end of the war they are back to the December 1941 figure. This is despite large losses of vehicles in 1942 and 1943 with each lost battle and their replacement by foreign aid.

But the horses are really interesting. During 1942 we see a steady fall in numbers which continues into the summer of 1943. Horses are being lost and replaced but not enough. Yet the available horses are being sent to the front where the numbers in the other graph remain much more stable. It is only when the tide turns and the Ukraine is recovered in 1943/44 that we start to see an increase in the numbers that continues right to the wars end.
2016-01-24 (6).png
This might be an indication that Dunn's claim that the Soviet Union lost 11 million horses in the territory occupied by the Germans (up to end of 1942) out of a total of 21 million (52%) had an impact, especially since the Soviet Union got through 3.7 million horses during the course of the war. This loss rate would mean that the entire horse stock of the Soviet Armed Forces turned over 3 times in 4 years or 600,000 horses a year on average. This plus the need to expand in 1941 from 498,000 in June 1941 to 1,300,000 by December 1941 probably exhausted a large part of the surplus horseflesh not being used in the economy. A population of horse of 10 million horses would have a birth rate of around half a million and horses can only be used from 3 years onwards so the working stock is going to be around 7 million.
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Re: Russian Army and Red Army Horse drawn wagons and carts

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 27 Jan 2016 22:00

State Defense Committee
Decree number GKO-1150ss on January 14, 1942
Moscow Kremlin.

About MOBILIZATION HORSES FOR ARMY

On the staffing of 70 infantry divisions and 50 infantry brigades mobilized in the country during January and half of February, 150,000 horses.

Chairman of the State Defense Committee STALIN

Statements sent Comrades Voznesensky, Shaposhnikov, Shchadenko, Khruleva.

Reason: RGASPI fund 644, inventory 1, 19, l.93.

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Re: Russian Army and Red Army Horse drawn wagons and carts

Post by Art » 31 Jan 2016 17:56

Some more info on the numbers of horse-drawn wagons from a summary on rear services work in the war (26 June 1946):
Available by the start of the war were 264 500 various wagons 49,2 field kitchens. Mobilized from the civil economy 419 700 wagons with gear. Procured newly produced 200 000 wagons and 37 300 field kitchens, of these numbers 161 200 wagons and 31 800 field kitchens were issued to troops. Losses during the war: 486 300 wagons and 46 100 kitchens as battle losses, and 146 900 wagons and 13 800 kitchens due to wear. Repaired - 1 290 000 wagons and 193 000 field kitchens. Issued to civil economy from the army 252 400 wagons and 51 500 various kitchens.
There are some problems with math here, because it appears that no wagons must be left by the end of the war.

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Re: Russian Army and Red Army Horse drawn wagons and carts

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 04 Feb 2016 16:26

Allowing for the trend that Soviet statistics are usually correct but only obscure the full picture by omitting some facts or combining other factors, I would surmise that the missing figure from this calculation is the wagons captured from the enemy or impressed from enemy civilian stocks. Perhaps these are figures used for reparations calculations?

The total wagons issued to the army is 845,400 of which 633,200 are lost and 252,400 returned to the civilian economy leaving a shortfall of 40,200 wagons.

Similarly the field kitchens issued are 81,000 of which 59,900 are lost and 51,500 returned to the civilian economy a net loss of 30,400 kitchens.

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Re: Russian Army and Red Army Horse drawn wagons and carts

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 04 Feb 2016 19:14

USSR Livestock.jpg
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Re: Russian Army and Red Army Horse drawn wagons and carts

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 09 Feb 2016 23:48

In autumn 1941 there was the difficult situation with the supply of the troops on the Kalinin, Leningrad, Volkhov and Western fronts. Due to the weak development of a network of dirt roads, bad roads and incredible difficulties in the use of motor transport supply goods delivered to the troops very slowly. In order to find a way out of the situation, the Chief of Logistics of the Soviet Army proposed a horse-drawn carts. According to the decision of GKO to 24 December 1941 was created 76 horse transport battalions (250-horse carts or sledges), which were distributed between the fronts. 19 Horse Transport (Guzhtransportnyh) battalions were in reserve of the Supreme Command . This measure had a positive impact on the supply of troops called the front. Soon began to appear formation reindeer teams in the north.

"Rear of Soviet Armed Forces in GPW" Kurkotkin

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Re: Russian Army and Red Army Horse drawn wagons and carts

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 10 Feb 2016 00:16

Winter offensive continued. Due to snowy roads vehicles more or less smoothly delivered ammunition and food divisions. But how to apply it all in the shelf? It replaced the car came sled.
Easy to say - sleigh! To equip troops sleds also had to think about in advance. After all, the military depots were not, there was no special harness. I had to again seek help from the local population and at the same time to establish their own production of the sled. By end-December 49th Army had more than three thousand sleds with harness, was formed by several animal-drawn vehicles and drivers. In January and February 1942, all the mass transport in the rear of the troop depended on horse-drawn carts.
However, the more horse-drawn transport, the more you need the horses, and hence feed. What to feed 4,000 horses? We have already begun to feed the surviving remnants of thatched roofs and feed abandoned by evacuees. Soon the whole front came a severe fodder crisis.
"On the main line" Antipenko

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Re: Russian Army and Red Army Horse drawn wagons and carts

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 10 Feb 2016 08:26

http://www.teatrskazka.com/Raznoe/Perec ... 26_02.html
2. Animal drawn Transport Battalions and 3. Mixed Motor and Animal Drawn Battalions 5. Camel Battalion (for operation in the Transcaucus)

http://www.teatrskazka.com/Raznoe/Perec ... 26_04.html
4. Animal drawn Transport Companies

http://www.teatrskazka.com/Raznoe/Perec ... 26_05.html
5. Mountain pack companies

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Re: Russian Army and Red Army Horse drawn wagons and carts

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 20 Feb 2016 18:58

http://www.teatrskazka.com/Raznoe/Sborn ... 2_44a.html

Annex No. 1 orders on the rear of the 8-th army no. 0051 about creating a wearable backpack food reserves and imported stocks of oats (June 3, 1942)

№ pore. Name of product For a number of Daily Allowance The number of products in grams Note
1 .........Rusk............................ 2 ..................................... 1000 .
2 .........Concentrates 1 dish........ 2..................................... 150
In the absence of any food concentrates it may be replaced by another dish.
3 ........."2 courses.................. 2..................................... 400
4 .........Sugar............................. 2..................................... 70 .
5 .........Salt............................... 2 ..................................... 30 .
6 .........Tea......................... 2..................................... 2 .
7 .........Canned meat.............. 2..................................... 1 jar . Canned meat should be invested weighing 338 grams each.
8 Oats:
. .........riding horses............... 1..................................... 4000 .
. .........for artillery horses......... 2..................................... 11000 .
. .........draft horses................ 2..................................... 8000 .

.

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Re: Russian Army and Red Army Horse drawn wagons and carts

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 20 Feb 2016 19:05

Order at the rear of the 370 Rifle Division
number 09
on the establishment of minimum stocks of food, forage, ammunition, and their separation (10 January 1943)

Fodder :
a) one daily allowance of oats and hay as a dead weight on each cart and artillery limbers harnesses;
b) a second daily allowance (expenditures) - in the battalion, battery baggage;
c) The third daily allowance - in the regimental baggage.

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Re: Russian Army and Red Army Horse drawn wagons and carts

Post by Der Alte Fritz » 20 Feb 2016 19:21

http://www.teatrskazka.com/Raznoe/Sborn ... 22_10.html

REPORT1
ON THE REAR Branch 51th Guards Rifle Division during the period from 5.7 by 10.8 in 1943

1. Deployment of rear units and divisions of institutions

Dislocation of the rear units and establishments of the 51st Guards Rifle Division held during the divisional battles both in defense and in attack with 10.8 by 5.7 in 1943 corresponded mainly statutory requirements and the terms of the situation ...:
a) dislocation rears division in each case was determined mainly by the operational situation ...
b) the presence on the ground of natural cover for the location of the rear units and establishments;
c) presence and condition of the roads leading to the location of the rear units and establishments;
g) [the possibility to organize a] security and surveillance, as well as the connection between the rear and the rear parts of the units of the division.
In addition, any relocation produced (rears) combined with the presence of the material and vehicles, which are arranged as a rear unit and the rear division ...
...............................................................
Analyzing in fighting the positive and negative factors [previous] dislocation of the rear units, taking into account the operational environment, the nature of the terrain and roads, as well as the availability of means of transport of units, the dislocation rears made in the following order:
[In the defense division in the band width of up to 10 km] regimental and battalion rear (up to 5.7 in 1943) located in the dividing lines of your site.
The battalion supply platoon and a transportation company parts, does not have a staff presence while horse drawn transport is stationed at short distances from 3 to 6 kilometers, and the battalion rear located 1.5-2 kilometers.
Divisional rear stationed outside the dividing lines of its forces to a depth of 15-20 kilometers.
Occupation defense units in the band up to 3 km (3.8 to 1943 - Scheme 4)2 complicated dislocation [rears] in terms of the availability of natural camouflage, the presence of roads and proper positioning of rear to the front, so that we had to place the rear parts of nearly concentration [Edge] and [stretch them] in a depth of 12 km, and the battalion rear were pulled up in battle formations of units on 1.5 km and buried in the ground.
Food deliveries to this period only two times a day in order to keep the material part of the artillery fire of the enemy.
Food and ammunition battalions means driving up the parts.
There have been cases, and particularly in the occurrence, when the depth of the rear units often achieved in the regiments of up to 12 km, and in the battalions to 2-6 kilometers.
...............................................................
With regard to the deployment rears during the onset of our troops, here we have always tried to bring them closer to the leading parts in the regiments of up to 4 km in the battalions - up to 2 km and the rear division - up to 5 km. This made it possible to ensure the normal units and subunits, and most importantly facilitated the relocation of cargo (food and other stocks).
Location divisional exchange offices and logistical facilities has always been focused, it gave the opportunity to stay abreast of financial security units and proactively manage [the work of the rear].
The field bakery Divisional veterinary hospital and it is expedient to deploy at a distance of 20-30 km, as move them very difficult, and this experience has shown, is not caused by any necessity.
With regard to the transport of motor transport, it was deployed together with the rear institutions, since separation motor transport extremely aggravated planning transportation of goods.
Masking and wealth buried in the ground have been mandatory in all cases.

2. The condition and operation of army vehicles

The main work consisted of vehicles, mainly to the transport of military and economic goods from the supply station up to and including the regiment.
Transport of units used mainly for the delivery of divisional exchange points regarding ammunition and perform special tasks for operational assignment.
In the transport of military and economic goods were involved, "ZIS-5" - 13 units of imported cars - 10 pieces, "GAZ-AA" - 2 pcs... Transported payload from July 5 to August 10, 1943 3197 tons, made 105 thousand kilometers. Due to the small number of the fleet and a large distance supply station (80 to 180 km), which resulted in over-load vehicles, the technical condition of vehicles is extremely decreased.
Over the entire period has been repaired: the current - 97 machines, medium - 53 machines. Total of 150 cars repaired. However, vehicles with their task for the delivery of the necessary number of military and commercial cargo handled.
For efficient production of repair of vehicles with engines, for the following goods bound, depending on the amount of walking machines, locksmith with the necessary tools and materials, or primitive motor repair shop.

3. Work divisional exchange office in a defensive
and offensive battles

The system works divisional exchanger is divided into two main periods.
Divisional exchanger permanent deployment, which received and concentrated all military and economic goods, and from there flying detachment thrown forward as food and ammunition. For example, when the divisional exchange office was in Rylsky, flying detachment were thrown in Lucky and Yakovlev (Chart 5), which was caused by the operational situation and road conditions.
When dislocation in Peresyp briefing was ejected in Kochetovka.
This method is quite justified his appointment as ... relocation divisional exchange points it is a big difficulty, so the cargo arrives at the divisional exchange, immediately were delivered in part or organize the next divisional exchange office ahead of the current, which is fed to the loads pappose.
Holiday food portions, which received its own, was made at dusk or before dawn, and, where necessary, and in the daytime. Infantry and artillery regiments, which were imported food transport division, holiday food produced through constantly seconded by authorized parts divisional exchange office. When the parts of the divisional bureaux or flying detachment thrown forward ...
Due to the fact that the divisional exchange office were the Permanent Representatives of parts, documents produced in advance to send food and ammunition, checks on the requirements of ...

4. The work of the regimental and battalion logistics and their relationship with the divisional
rears

The rear of the regiment carried out the general organization of material support and control units. To ensure the organization and control units in the regiment was introduced procedure for the distribution of responsible persons from the rear of employees in the following way:
1. For the organization of supply ... and availability of food and other stocks in the units were responsible Head of forage production supply, one of his assistants, head of equipment & clothing supplies and the chief of artillery supplies.
2. For the produced workpiece (local) and the delivery of food to the location of the warehouse regiment accountable one of the assistant chief forage production supply and fixed collectors.
3. Communication and Management rearguard units assigned to the assistant chief of staff for logistics. General guidance exercised assistant regimental commander for material support.
Contact divisional rears with parts made by permanently assigned and authorized seconded part with divisional exchange office. Periodically calls for public servants of the reconciliation report on security and reports on services.
General Feedback from the rear division to the rear regiment was made on the radio and the telephone through the command post of the division.
Regimental and battalion rear coped with its task.

5. Delivery of the material means of exchange office divisional battalions and their companies

Delivery of material resources of food and ammunition was built in the next [order]
1. Divisional exchanger to all infantry and artillery regiments of food and ammunition, as well as other property, mostly delivered by transport division means.
2. The food is brought up by battalions of the regiment warehouse horse drawn transport battalions, and ammunition were delivered horse drawn transport companies of the regiment.
Depending on the availability of food in the battalions horse drawn transport companies part it was imported transport regiment, and during the occurrence of all types of property drives up transport parts.
3. Special units of all types of property with the divisional exchanger taken out of their own means and delivered them directly into battalions, companies.
In practice, [this system] in terms of the transport of food and ammunition brought approval from contentment. Recently, however, an excessive overload of the transport of Motor Transport Company partially forced to abandon the transport of foodstuffs by the divisions transport, placing the demand on the part of local units.

6. Security and defense troop rear

Security and defense troop rear not raced in accordance with the requirements of the statutes and precepts.
Security divisional exchanger carried out by workers divisional exchange office and people seconded from the parts to produce and delivery of food and ammunition. The defense was absent.
Guard regimental warehouse swept by people transport companies, as well as an ornate clerkly composition workshops and personal composition. The defense of the rear part is also absent due to the fact that funds for this purpose for both parts and are not allocated to the divisional exchange office.

7. Common difficulties troop rear of the period in question

Particular difficulties Department of Logistics division experienced in the delivery of food, ammunition, and especially, with the supply stations, due to the remoteness of large military bases, especially in the offensive period when the army base came off at a distance of 160 kilometers. This situation is not acceptable in the future.

Deputy commander of the 51th Guards
Rifle Division at the rear
(signature)

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