Could someone provide the dates these shtat became effective:
04/730
04/330
04/580
04/230
04/325 (Far East)
Thanks
Leo
Rifle Brigades
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Leo Niehorster
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Eugen Pinak
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Re: Rifle Brigades
04/230 - 17 April 1942
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Gary Kennedy
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Re: Rifle Brigades
From the Red Army Handbook -
04/734-744; 15 Oct 1941 (Cadet Rifle Bde)
04/230-241; 17 Apr 1942 (as noted above)
04/330-341; 28(?) Jul 1942
No details given for 04/580 or 04/325.
Gary
04/734-744; 15 Oct 1941 (Cadet Rifle Bde)
04/230-241; 17 Apr 1942 (as noted above)
04/330-341; 28(?) Jul 1942
No details given for 04/580 or 04/325.
Gary
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Leo Niehorster
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Re: Rifle Brigades
Many thanks, Eugen and Gary.
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Königstiger
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Re: Rifle Brigades
Shtat nr. 04/730: 15 Oct 1941 (independent rifle brigade)
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Leo Niehorster
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Re: Rifle Brigades
Thank you, Königstiger.
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Nakhodchanin
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Re: Rifle Brigades
I greeting all esteemed community! I apologize for my long absence, which, moreover, did not lead to the continuation of this
material: viewtopic.php?f=79&t=241220#p2285189 which I started last year. There will be continuation in any case, but today I want to present to community the work that I have been doing all this time. Raising the bar from battalion level to brigade level was harder than I had imagined. As result, this material is not completely whole, which does not correspond to my own standards. Because I upload this TO&E set of separate Rifle Brigade No.04/230 - No.04/241 of April 17, 1942 in PDF format, therefore I will make a mandatory preview of a couple of pages in JPEG format:
The link to original https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=259864600 was posted by Dear Der Alte Fritz 4 years ago, here, in this message: viewtopic.php?p=2063934#p2063934 When I found tables for this Shtat, are located here: https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=259864684 the decision to start work was instantaneous. I decided that it would be a good idea to add this new Shtat to Shtat of Rifle Division No.04/200-No.04/207, No.04/209-No.04/213 and No.04/767, that are available on the site rkka.ru, here: http://www.rkka.ru/iorg.htm So that it would be possible to consider all these TO&Es of two hundredth ordinal numbers together. Directly the Shtat themselves: To be continued ...
material: viewtopic.php?f=79&t=241220#p2285189 which I started last year. There will be continuation in any case, but today I want to present to community the work that I have been doing all this time. Raising the bar from battalion level to brigade level was harder than I had imagined. As result, this material is not completely whole, which does not correspond to my own standards. Because I upload this TO&E set of separate Rifle Brigade No.04/230 - No.04/241 of April 17, 1942 in PDF format, therefore I will make a mandatory preview of a couple of pages in JPEG format:
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Nakhodchanin
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Re: Rifle Brigades
...let's continue: To be continued ...
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Nakhodchanin
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Re: Rifle Brigades
...let's continue: The evolution of TO&Es of Rifle Brigade Red Army in 1941-1945 isn't my specialization, but I, from my side, will point out three aspects that caught my attention:
1.) in Shtat No.04/231 Rifle Battalion of Rifle Brigade, unlike Shtat No.04/201 Rifle Regiment of Rifle Division there is still trace of organizational and staff transformation, which I call ironically "Great Migration Period of mortarts Red Army";
2.) in Rifle Brigade, unlike Rifle Division, the marksmen are still left on level of Rifle Squad. I use word "marksmen", according to this: "*) In platoon 2 men armed semi-automatic rifle with scope ..."; this is quote from notes to composition
of Rifle Squad in Shtat No.04/601 of Rifle Regiment, in which for first time such riflemen are appearing. The sought-for page, above-mentioned context on this highlighted by red frames:
Taken from here: https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=114784764 12th page. Therefore, it is no accident that on second image in my preview, I put page from Shtat of Rifle Battalion, in content of which composition of Rifle Squad is given.
To be continued ...
1.) in Shtat No.04/231 Rifle Battalion of Rifle Brigade, unlike Shtat No.04/201 Rifle Regiment of Rifle Division there is still trace of organizational and staff transformation, which I call ironically "Great Migration Period of mortarts Red Army";
2.) in Rifle Brigade, unlike Rifle Division, the marksmen are still left on level of Rifle Squad. I use word "marksmen", according to this: "*) In platoon 2 men armed semi-automatic rifle with scope ..."; this is quote from notes to composition
of Rifle Squad in Shtat No.04/601 of Rifle Regiment, in which for first time such riflemen are appearing. The sought-for page, above-mentioned context on this highlighted by red frames:
To be continued ...
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Nakhodchanin
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Re: Rifle Brigades
...let's continue:
3.) comparison the organization of flamethrowers detachment in Rifle Battalion of Rifle Brigade and organization of similar sub-unit in Rifle Regiment of Rifle Division once again confirms: the advantages of flexibility and universalization, which were laid in basis of the organizational structure, cannot compensate for resulting inevitable disadvantages of insufficient specialization of organizational structure. Soviet Military System understood this and tried to correct this as much as she
could. That's why in Rifle Brigade Shtat of summer 1942(as I understand these are following numbers No.04/330-No.04/342) should have appeared ampulomets platoon with six ampulomets:
Taken from here: http://sovdoc.rusarchives.ru/sections/w ... 366/images 1st page. Based on this document, we can talk about an increase of establishment strength of Rifle Brigade: with regard to TO&Es of two hundredth and three hundredth ordinal numbers. With regard to Rifle Divisions, reverse process occurred.
Unfortunately, I haven't done translation of tables for Shtat yet, they are available only in original language here: http://vif2ne.org/rkka/forum/0/co/128062.htm The PDF format cannot convey my notes that I made when processing originals of TO&Es in Excel format. I applied palliative way in form of coloring numbers, letters, words and text fragments in red color. The first image in my preview shows 1st page from Shtat No.04/230 Administration of Rifle Brigade, in content of which handwritten note about Order of NKO No.0296 from April 19, 1942 is printed by red color. I don't know, anyone translated this order into English or not, I will give link to variant in original language: http://militera.lib.ru/docs/da/nko_1941-1942/10.html This is digital edition, needed and interesting(for all those who study rear units of Red Army) order can be found by ordinal number in list № 172.
The meaning of single-letter abbreviations I used in rightmost column "Material part, individual weapons and transport", in round brackets is the original Russian version:
A.Individual weapons
a(а) and r(в) = rifle(винтовка)
cr(кр) = carbine(карабин)
mp(пп) = machine pistol(пистолет-пулемет)
p(п) = pistol or revolver(пистолет или револьвер)
s(с) = sniper rifle with scope(снайперская винтовка с оптическим прицелом)
B.Military devices
b(б) = binocular(бинокль)
c(к) = compass(компас)
g(о) = glasses-light filters(очки-светофильтры)
x(ц) = xylonite artillery devices(целлулоидные артиллерийские приборы)
About last abbreviation arises question immediately: why exactly xylonite? Why not celluloid? The option of "c = celluloid artillery devices" did not suit me, as this will led to inevitable and unacceptable duplication with variant of "c = compass". I was lucky that name of this material in English has outdated variants, one of them: xylanite = "x", I chose. I didn't know absolutely about possible ambiguity in decoding of this abbreviation in Artillery Table for Shtat of Red Army. I was able to understand question and decide how to do it, thanks to the help of RKKA.RU forum member Pavel Voylov https://ioncore.livejournal.com I express my great appreciation and thanks to him! Here is link to post of Dear Pavel Voylov on RKKA.RU forum, where he explains everything in detail: http://vif2ne.org/rkka/forum/0/co/128010.htm I am also grateful to Dear Der Alte Fritz, for so long ago You set the direction of my search for Tables, which ended with today's material.
In conclusion, I would like to thank all those involved in the existence of following resources: pamyat-naroda.ru rkka.ru militera.lib.ru and sovdoc.rusarchives.ru ! Special many thanks to all those, who are involved in the existence of our forum! Thank you all for your attention!
Best regards
3.) comparison the organization of flamethrowers detachment in Rifle Battalion of Rifle Brigade and organization of similar sub-unit in Rifle Regiment of Rifle Division once again confirms: the advantages of flexibility and universalization, which were laid in basis of the organizational structure, cannot compensate for resulting inevitable disadvantages of insufficient specialization of organizational structure. Soviet Military System understood this and tried to correct this as much as she
could. That's why in Rifle Brigade Shtat of summer 1942(as I understand these are following numbers No.04/330-No.04/342) should have appeared ampulomets platoon with six ampulomets:
Unfortunately, I haven't done translation of tables for Shtat yet, they are available only in original language here: http://vif2ne.org/rkka/forum/0/co/128062.htm The PDF format cannot convey my notes that I made when processing originals of TO&Es in Excel format. I applied palliative way in form of coloring numbers, letters, words and text fragments in red color. The first image in my preview shows 1st page from Shtat No.04/230 Administration of Rifle Brigade, in content of which handwritten note about Order of NKO No.0296 from April 19, 1942 is printed by red color. I don't know, anyone translated this order into English or not, I will give link to variant in original language: http://militera.lib.ru/docs/da/nko_1941-1942/10.html This is digital edition, needed and interesting(for all those who study rear units of Red Army) order can be found by ordinal number in list № 172.
The meaning of single-letter abbreviations I used in rightmost column "Material part, individual weapons and transport", in round brackets is the original Russian version:
A.Individual weapons
a(а) and r(в) = rifle(винтовка)
cr(кр) = carbine(карабин)
mp(пп) = machine pistol(пистолет-пулемет)
p(п) = pistol or revolver(пистолет или револьвер)
s(с) = sniper rifle with scope(снайперская винтовка с оптическим прицелом)
B.Military devices
b(б) = binocular(бинокль)
c(к) = compass(компас)
g(о) = glasses-light filters(очки-светофильтры)
x(ц) = xylonite artillery devices(целлулоидные артиллерийские приборы)
About last abbreviation arises question immediately: why exactly xylonite? Why not celluloid? The option of "c = celluloid artillery devices" did not suit me, as this will led to inevitable and unacceptable duplication with variant of "c = compass". I was lucky that name of this material in English has outdated variants, one of them: xylanite = "x", I chose. I didn't know absolutely about possible ambiguity in decoding of this abbreviation in Artillery Table for Shtat of Red Army. I was able to understand question and decide how to do it, thanks to the help of RKKA.RU forum member Pavel Voylov https://ioncore.livejournal.com I express my great appreciation and thanks to him! Here is link to post of Dear Pavel Voylov on RKKA.RU forum, where he explains everything in detail: http://vif2ne.org/rkka/forum/0/co/128010.htm I am also grateful to Dear Der Alte Fritz, for so long ago You set the direction of my search for Tables, which ended with today's material.
In conclusion, I would like to thank all those involved in the existence of following resources: pamyat-naroda.ru rkka.ru militera.lib.ru and sovdoc.rusarchives.ru ! Special many thanks to all those, who are involved in the existence of our forum! Thank you all for your attention!
Best regards
-
Nakhodchanin
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- Joined: 02 Sep 2018, 09:33
- Location: Russian Federation
Re: Rifle Brigades
I greeting all esteemed community! I'll just leave it here(in chronological order). The first
Russian-language original 1st page http://sovdoc.rusarchives.ru/Final_s/gk ... 12Л177.jpg and 2nd page http://sovdoc.rusarchives.ru/Final_s/gk ... 12Л178.jpg The second
Russian-language original http://sovdoc.rusarchives.ru/Final_s/gk ... 30Л127.jpg The third
Russian-language original 1st page http://sovdoc.rusarchives.ru/Final_s/gk ... 48Л138.jpg and 2nd page http://sovdoc.rusarchives.ru/Final_s/gk ... 48Л139.jpg Thank you all for your attention!
Best regards
Best regards
-
Nakhodchanin
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- Location: Russian Federation
Re: Rifle Brigades
Hello, all! I want to present new work to the esteemed community. This is my "superficial" translation of organization chart of the Rifle Brigade with regimental structure, TO&E: Nos 04/730-04/739, 04/418, 04/620. This document belongs to the 24th RflBde, and it's located here: https://pamyat-naroda.ru/documents/view/?id=152107130
My brief explanations and comments on the organization chart are as follows:
1.) I gave the numerical composition of the Rifle Brigade, according to data of this document (I highlighted in red what I used), link: http://sovdoc.rusarchives.ru/Final_s/gk ... 23Л075.jpg
This is a comparative table of the establishment composition of the Rifle Brigades of the previous and projected organization. The author of this table is Major general N.I. Chetverikov, it's an annex to the preparatory version of the GKO Order No.-828ss of November 22, 1941. This annex is placed on the 3rd page here: http://sovdoc.rusarchives.ru/sections/w ... 991/images but the definition of this document is indicated here: http://sovdoc.rusarchives.ru/sections/war/cards/367858
2.) The above annex does not include data on anti-aircraft weapons. Accordingly, I didn't provide this information, due to its absence from me. I'll try to clarify this point. If someone from the community has such data and will deems it necessary to provide it, I'll be very grateful.
3.) I made the numbering of the TO&E of the Rifle Brigade units and sub-units on the data of Dear Pavel Voylov, which he presented here: http://vif2ne.org/rkka/forum/0/co/128567.htm I would like to thank all those involved in the existence of following resources and forums: pamyat-naroda.ru, sovdoc.rusarchives.ru, forum.axishistory.com and vif2ne.org!
Great thanks to Pavel Voylov for his materials at the last forum.
Thank you all for your attention!
Best regards
1.) I gave the numerical composition of the Rifle Brigade, according to data of this document (I highlighted in red what I used), link: http://sovdoc.rusarchives.ru/Final_s/gk ... 23Л075.jpg
2.) The above annex does not include data on anti-aircraft weapons. Accordingly, I didn't provide this information, due to its absence from me. I'll try to clarify this point. If someone from the community has such data and will deems it necessary to provide it, I'll be very grateful.
3.) I made the numbering of the TO&E of the Rifle Brigade units and sub-units on the data of Dear Pavel Voylov, which he presented here: http://vif2ne.org/rkka/forum/0/co/128567.htm I would like to thank all those involved in the existence of following resources and forums: pamyat-naroda.ru, sovdoc.rusarchives.ru, forum.axishistory.com and vif2ne.org!
Great thanks to Pavel Voylov for his materials at the last forum.
Thank you all for your attention!
Best regards