Himmler's mistress

Discussions on the role played by and situation of women in the Third Reich not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Vikki.
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Helge
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Supplements to SS-Schule Opleiding (changed by moderator)

Post by Helge » 17 Jul 2010 09:56

http://www.anp-archief.nl

Titel: SS-SCHULE-OPLEIDING
Caption: AVEGOOR - Hoge Duitse militairen en NSB-ers, waaronder Heinrich Himmler en Ir A. Mussert in de sporthal van de SS-Schule op het landgoed Avegoor.

fotograaf:Co Zeylemaker
stad:Avegoor
land:Nederland
beeldnummer:2555749
beelddatum:01-02-1944
ANP Historisch Archief
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Sota ei päätä kuka on oikeassa, vain sen että kuka on jäljellä.
War does not decide who is right but only those who are left.

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HaEn
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Re: Himmler's mistress

Post by HaEn » 17 Jul 2010 20:12

Irritating "marking", obscures big part of picture. These people should keep in mind that once upon a time these pictures were public domain.
Oh well.
HN

Phil Nix
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Re: Supplements to SS-Schule Opleiding (changed by moderator

Post by Phil Nix » 18 Jul 2010 10:05

Helge wrote:http://www.anp-archief.nl

Titel: SS-SCHULE-OPLEIDING
Caption: AVEGOOR - Hoge Duitse militairen en NSB-ers, waaronder Heinrich Himmler en Ir A. Mussert in de sporthal van de SS-Schule op het landgoed Avegoor.

fotograaf:Co Zeylemaker
stad:Avegoor
land:Nederland
beeldnummer:2555749
beelddatum:01-02-1944
ANP Historisch Archief
Can you please post in English
Phil Nix

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Heimatschuss
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Re: Himmler's mistress

Post by Heimatschuss » 18 Jul 2010 10:23

Hello Phil,

the translation is something like:

High German military men and NSB members, amongst them Heinrich Himmler and Ingenieur* A. Mussert, in the sports hall [gym]
of the SS school on the country estate Avegoor.

*) academic title; Mussert had an university degree in construction engineering.

Best regards
Torsten

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Heimatschuss
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Re: Himmler's mistress

Post by Heimatschuss » 17 Aug 2010 22:14

Hello,

I found two other photos that seem to depict the same woman Helge discovered.

Her hair-do is very similar in all three pics.

In the first two photos the mystery woman wears a dark neck brooch.

The dark-haired chap visible on the extreme right of photo 1 also appears in the bakground of photo 3.

In the first and the last pic the woman has an elongated face. Photo 2 is a bit of a problem because http://www.beeldbankwo2.nl (very often) compresses the pictures vertically. I have already stretched this one vertically a bit to compensate because Himmler looked quite stout and bent in the original. The woman is smiling this time which may add to the width of the face.

According to the caption of picture 3 it was published on Feb. 22th, 1944. I have re-checked Sepp Dietrich and indeed he would be available for February 1944. He was no longer with the SS-Leibstandarte but was at that time building up I. SS-Panzerkorps in Belgium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_SS_Panzer_Corps).

So no luck for Julia op ten Noort. But on the other hand now we know that the only photo said to show Hedwig Potthast (and shown as such in numerous books, films etc. ) does actually not show Potthast but the so-far unnamed female headmaster of a girls' school in the Netherlands (Heythuysen?).

Sources:
Top picture: http://www.audiovis.nac.gov.pl/obraz/53 ... 612d43a9f/
Centre picture: http://www.beeldbankwo2.nl Image No. 29852
Bottom picture: http://www.ullsteinbild.de Image No. 00089294

Best regards
Torsten
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Helge
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Re: Himmler's mistress

Post by Helge » 18 Aug 2010 23:35

Hello Torsten,
I think there is to know the identity of the woman in the photo. I found the name of the deputy director of the school that are in the post. We continue to search.

Best regards
Helge


STEFANIE JODDA-FLINTROP
„Wir sollten intelligente Mütter werden“
Nationalpolitische Erziehungsanstalten für Mädchen
1938/1939 – 1945

http://docserv.uni-duesseldorf.de/servl ... ss-A1b.pdf

Reichsschule für Mädchen in Heythuysen

(P43)
The Dutch Baroness Julia op ten Noort became the first head of the school. You
had since 1937 the "National Socialist Movement of the Netherlands belongs" and counted 1938
the co-founders of the National-Socialist Vrouwen Organisatie. Since the mid-30s
Years she had "good relations with Himmler, whom she owed the management of the school realm.
Deputy Head was Elfriede Hiess, an Austrian, who had already been in Hubert Village
Türnitz informed and Colmar-Berg had "(Aumüller Roske-1988, p. 37).

Julia op ten Noort Director
Elfriede Hiess Deputy Director
Sota ei päätä kuka on oikeassa, vain sen että kuka on jäljellä.
War does not decide who is right but only those who are left.

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Helge
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Re: Himmler's mistress

Post by Helge » 19 Aug 2010 10:44

In the film, from 00:23 to 00:30, should be Julia op ten Noort

http://deoorlog.nps.nl/page/personen/78 ... ?cat_id=68

Helge
Sota ei päätä kuka on oikeassa, vain sen että kuka on jäljellä.
War does not decide who is right but only those who are left.

JoeW
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Re: Himmler's mistress

Post by JoeW » 19 Aug 2010 13:43

"He made a personal acquaintance, Dutch Baroness Juul op ten Noort, director of the Heythuysen school in 1942. Perhaps it's her in the photo." It was a bit more than personal acquaintance I believe. Himmler accepted one of her children as a Patenkind.

If Ekhart Himmler was Ernst Himmler's son and Heinrich nephew, who was Heide Himmler?

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Heimatschuss
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Re: Himmler's mistress

Post by Heimatschuss » 20 Aug 2010 18:15

Hello Helge,

many thanks for the link to the thesis of Jodda-Flintrop. I knew only parts of it from Google Books and it appeared to be a very interesting read which I was going to buy (one day). Many thanks again!

I've found the attached photo of Baroness op ten Oort and Florentine Rost van Tonningen. Unfortunately it's overexposed and may require vertical stretching. I read somewhere that Juul op ten Noort had the figure of a mannequin and the person(s) we have here look(s) a bit short-legged and chubby.

Source: http://www.beeldbankwo2.nl/index.jsp Image No. 34249 (modified)

Best regards
Torsten
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Alex Dekker
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Re: Himmler's mistress

Post by Alex Dekker » 20 Aug 2010 18:19

Julia op ten Noort is on the left. After the war she was asked if her son was born out of Himmler. She denied and told the reporter she had never had any serious relation with Himmler at all. Her son was born during the war in a Lebensborn home. She died in 2003, if my memory serves me well.

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Helge
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Re: Himmler's mistress

Post by Helge » 21 Aug 2010 10:48

Hello Torsten, hello Alex Dekker
you did a great research! Now we have his rare image!
We know that the mysterious woman's photo not Julia op ten Noort.
My opinion is that she is not Edwige Potthast: she presents children because Heinrich Himmler!!!
Not just a teacher but perhaps the deputy director: Elfriede Hiess?

A news that I did not know about Hedwig Potthast:

Brückenthin at Neustrelitz: http://www.gutshaeuser.de/gutshaeuser_b ... entin.html

In 1299 The Place With The Brückentinsee WAS Awarded Himmelpfort the monastery. The building HAD many owners over the years. Last Owner to 1941 Albert Wood WAS. Then Took Over The SS organization "German Research Institute for Food and Lodging" Possessions and he HAD to expand the building. Since 1942 lived here Heinrich Himmler's secretary and mistress, Hedwig Potthast. Since 1994, the property is used by a Youth Academy for Nature Conservation.

Helge
Sota ei päätä kuka on oikeassa, vain sen että kuka on jäljellä.
War does not decide who is right but only those who are left.

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Helge
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Re: Himmler's mistress

Post by Helge » 25 Aug 2010 08:32

For people interested in this topic

Reel 99 / Folder 16
Hedwig Potthast, geb. 6.2.1912.
Various personal documents, such as membership and identification cards, certificate of custody (which is shared by Himmler) for two children, the boy Helge, born Feb. 5, 1942 and the girl Nanette, born June 3, 1944. Personal correspondence, 1933-1945.
See also Reel B.
250 Frames
1933-1945

Reel 18B / Folder 9
Zur Ahnenforschung Himmler’s.
Birth and baptismal certificates, marriage and death certificates of Himmler and Potthast ancestors.
38 Frames
nd

Reel 18B / Folder 16
Hedwig Potthast, geb. 6.2.1912.
Birth certificate of Hedwig Potthast.
3 Frames
1912

http://www.wienerlibrary.co.uk/collecti ... ionHimmler

Helge
Sota ei päätä kuka on oikeassa, vain sen että kuka on jäljellä.
War does not decide who is right but only those who are left.

JoeW
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Location: Midwest, USA

Re: Himmler's mistress

Post by JoeW » 25 Aug 2010 14:25

I never thought to look in the Hoover search guide for us here in the USA. Thanks for the reminder.

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Helge
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Re: Himmler's mistress

Post by Helge » 21 Sep 2010 20:53

http://ss-peiper.narod.ru/gallery/famil ... 1-1937.jpg

We can accurately identify the women in this photo?
Helge
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Sota ei päätä kuka on oikeassa, vain sen että kuka on jäljellä.
War does not decide who is right but only those who are left.

Phil Nix
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Re: Himmler's mistress

Post by Phil Nix » 22 Sep 2010 10:34

The Obsf is Richard Pruchtnow later promoted Oberführer
Phil Nix

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